My main issue with 8 Diagrams.....

[Clozaril]

My main issue with 8 Diagrams is that when i heard RZA & William Burke's Chamber of Fear i thought the lp was gonna sound like this

[cbfwebs]

Here's how I've been listening to 8D for the last few days. I gotta say, after messing around with the playlist for a while and taking a few tracks off, there is actually a fairly solid album in there. I still don't think it's something I would bump on a regular basis but this plays much better than the retail version for me...

01. Campfire (without the movie dialogue intro, I edited that part out)
02. Take It Back
03. Watch Your Mouth
04. Get Them Out Ya Way Pa
05. Rushing Elephants
06. Thug World
07. The Heart Gently Weeps (original sample version)
08. Wolves (album version)
09. Gun Will Go
10. Sunlight
11. Windmill
12. Weak Spot
13. Tar Pit
14. Life Changes


Not massively different to the retail version, but to me it flows so much better with a couple of the original tracks in there, and leaving off Starter and Stick Me For My Riches.



Peace!

See now I like Starter and Stick Me For My Riches, save for the facts the former was a re-used RZA beat (Afro 2's "Certified Samurai" - stop re-using verses & beats!!! wth...) & the latter RZA did not have Deck re-record his blown out smoked-100-cigars voice, because his verse was dope but is underplayed because RZA put the song out without polishing it. You can even hear in the bridge after his verse, Deck sounds normal again. So annoying and cringing!!

But I like where you are going with that tracklist.

[cbfwebs]

Tar pit COULD HAVE been one of the best tracks on the album..but its a 5 minute track with less then 2 minutes of rapping..did we really need 3 minutes of George Clinton talkin a bunch of nonsensical bullshit at the end of a wu tang clan album?! Plus had arguably the weakest emcee in the clan and 2 killa bees. Streetlife and cap are both dope but not to end a WU TANG CLAN! album with. End with a bang not a thud.

Cappadonna is NOT a Killa Bee. He is the Official 10th Member of Wu-Tang. He was inducted during The W era and then deleted from Iron Flag only to be re-inducted during 8 Diagrams as according to RZA, so no, he is a full-fledged Wu Member on "Tar Pit".

Streetlife is closer to Wu than any other Affiliate besides Redman. They are the 11th and 12th "Honorary Members" or cousins of Wu if you will. Both are affiliated with Meth and appear on Clan albums where the "first families" Sunz Of Man, Killarmy & Royal Fam don't even.

You can't say that song featured Killa Beez when it's Wu Member Cappadonna and Wu-cousin Streetlife.

This also may spark a debate but U-God is not the weakest in the Clan. Every members' styles are drastically different, and his is just that. U-God kills it. Go back and listen to some Wu gems like Knuckleheadz/Winter Warz/Grand Prix/Rumble, hell, even on Watch Your Mouth from this era he overshadowed some of his brethren. Just my opinion but Golden Arms is dope, especially matched with the right Wu Member.

[TSA]

I even forgot about the reused beats and deck voice lol

[MikeAll]

...U-God is not the weakest in the Clan. Every members' styles are drastically different, and his is just that. U-God kills it. Go back and listen to some Wu gems like Knuckleheadz/Winter Warz/Grand Prix/Rumble, hell, even on Watch Your Mouth from this era he overshadowed some of his brethren. Just my opinion but Golden Arms is dope...

BIG co sign. To quote Uey [Get em out Ya Way] "it took a lil time to get his juices flowing" but when he did Golden! In fact UGod gave one of the better MC performnces on "Eight Diagram" (imo).

[FakeAlias]

Cappadonna will never be a real Wu-Tang Clan member to me, because he's not on Enter the 36 Chambers.

8 Diagrams is an all right album. Has some gems.

I love Ghost's verse on The Heart Gently Weeps but I hate the beat and hook. Makes me cringe.

U-God low key killed 8 Diagrams. He also had a great opening verse on Six Directions of Boxing. U-God gets too much hate - his verses on all the Wu albums are great. He just made an underwhelming solo and a super shitty sophomore album.

The first version of Thug World was better but the title and the hook are dumb and it should feature more members.

The first version of Wolves was better.

Windmill, Weak Spot and Rushing Elephants are classic Wu.

Life Changes was dope, but it's annoying to have the chorus between every verse and no Ghostface is inexcusable.

Method's rhyme about bringing the sexy back on Campfire is over-hated. Doesn't bother me. I don't get why people hate it. Did you also hate "carry like Mariah" and all those cheesy lies on "Method Man"? Does everything have to be 5% psuedo-philosphy? Timbaland & Timberlake made good pop music together, anyways. It's just a line.

The overall problems with 8 Diagrams are: 1. RZA keeps poorly experimenting with guitars. (And this is coming from somebody who loves almost all of Kanye's experimental stuff) 2) Wack singing hooks 3) Wu often raps like they don't care, or aren't excited about the beat and 4) Ghost disappears. We wouldn't notice it his verses weren't so good. Take It Back & Heart Gently Weeps were vintage Ghost.

[num2son]

The overall problems with 8 Diagrams are: 1. RZA keeps poorly experimenting with guitars. (And this is coming from somebody who loves almost all of Kanye's experimental stuff) 2) Wack singing hooks 3) Wu often raps like they don't care, or aren't excited about the beat and 4) Ghost disappears. We wouldn't notice it his verses weren't so good.

I agree and another thing is the inclusion of "The Heart Sutra" it was unnecessary.

[trinking]

Cappadonna is NOT a Killa Bee. He is the Official 10th Member of Wu-Tang. He was inducted during The W era and then deleted from Iron Flag only to be re-inducted during 8 Diagrams as according to RZA, so no, he is a full-fledged Wu Member on "Tar Pit".

Streetlife is closer to Wu than any other Affiliate besides Redman. They are the 11th and 12th "Honorary Members" or cousins of Wu if you will. Both are affiliated with Meth and appear on Clan albums where the "first families" Sunz Of Man, Killarmy & Royal Fam don't even.

You can't say that song featured Killa Beez when it's Wu Member Cappadonna and Wu-cousin Streetlife.

This also may spark a debate but U-God is not the weakest in the Clan. Every members' styles are drastically different, and his is just that. U-God kills it. Go back and listen to some Wu gems like Knuckleheadz/Winter Warz/Grand Prix/Rumble, hell, even on Watch Your Mouth from this era he overshadowed some of his brethren. Just my opinion but Golden Arms is dope, especially matched with the right Wu Member.

Knew someone was gonna take offense to that line about cap. Wu tang is 9 mcs imo. There are better killa beez then streetlife and cap. That's just facts. Point is, the beats dope and was wasted. I don't have a problem with those 3 bein on it just felt like it would've been better with others.

If ugods not the weakest then who do u think is? Not sayin I don't like him or that he sucks, problem is that he's got 8 other people that are better then him. Someone's gotta be first and someone's gotta be last, just the way it is.

[claaa7]

Can someone post these originals and different mixes? I don't recall hearing some of them.

Tar pit COULD HAVE been one of the best tracks on the album..but its a 5 minute track with less then 2 minutes of rapping..did we really need 3 minutes of George Clinton talkin a bunch of nonsensical bullshit at the end of a wu tang clan album?! Plus had arguably the weakest emcee in the clan and 2 killa bees. Streetlife and cap are both dope but not to end a WU TANG CLAN! album with. End with a bang not a thud.

On somewhat of a side note..does anyone think that RZA may possibly be done wit the rock/alternative/corny beats and music he's been creating? Started slowly wit 8D and digi snacks, sprinkled some good shit here and there, and (hopefully) ended on that atrocity that is banks and steelez..or is it just wishful thinking. Be dope if he realized that he fulfilled his musical quest or whatever he was on and realized that yes he gained a lot of knowledge and bettered his craft but its time to be real and get back to what he's best at but still with a dose of what he's learned.

Btw State of Grace is one of the best Raekwon songs EVER made! That song is the whole reason a HUGE amount of people started to even discuss and start checkin for CL2

I would love to help you but unfortunately i lost my harddrive. Prerhsaps Pat83 still have them. WATCH YOUR mouth, prod by DJ Scratch it was the first single to drop. Its on YouTube and so is OG Thug World and You Cant Stop Me Now turned up on Digi Snsacks.

I really feel like this lp is VERY underrated and was way ahead of its time.

Again TAR PIT is a monster imo And a great homage to Funkadelic. To me thats a better use of vintage sounding hiphop with live instruments than Chamber Music or 36 seasons. Given that its one of 2 bonus i think it was real cool to have UGOD, Steet, Cappa spit 8 bas each. Could defo have cut out half of Clinton's freestyle monolouge. Luckily it segues nicely ino the excellent 92-93 retro "classic" 16th Chamber.

There was an interesting poll on here after it dropped asking members to answer what they thought of the album while also azking if they liked progresdive rock. Interedtingly enough fans of more rxperimental music gave 8D much higher marks.

[Jin10304]

"Cappadonna will never be a real Wu-Tang Clan member to me, because he's not on Enter the 36 Chambers." he was in jail at the time, made official by 8D even recieving his financial dues. Caps been there since the beginning & even was in the PYN video

[MikeAll]

"Cappadonna will never be a real Wu-Tang Clan member to me, because he's not on Enter the 36 Chambers." he was in jail at the time, made official by 8D even recieving his financial dues. Caps been there since the beginning & even was in the PYN video

Good points! To add on, Deck credits him as his rhyme techer and many of the Generals cited him as THE MC of Staten Island back in the day...

Wonder what 36 would have been like if Cappa and Scotty Watty were featured? It just worked out to be 9 Generals like 9 Planets...

Speaking of our solar system, please consider when Pluto was demoted as a planet and the parallels btwn Pluto and Osirus.
PEACE

[ShaDynasty]

Claaa7 did you ever throw an alternate version of the LP up on your site? Theres a lot of Wu material around that time to make a decent alt version with, Afro Samurai, Digi Snax & others.

I have my own version thats pretty good, but like someone remarked in the MK thread you have a gift for this (or too much time on your hands lol). I want to hear it.

[Pattch82]

I would love to help you but unfortunately i lost my harddrive. Prerhsaps Pat83 still have them. WATCH YOUR mouth, prod by DJ Scratch it was the first single to drop. Its on YouTube and so is OG Thug World and You Cant Stop Me Now turned up on Digi Snsacks.

Here's all of the alternate versions and other joints I've got... The quality isn't great on some of the tracks as they were radio rips from when RZA started dropping exclusives during his interviews for 8D.

01. Watch Your Mouth
02. Thug World
03. Wolves (Original Version)
04. The Heart Gently Weeps (Original Demo Version)
05. Stick Me For My Riches (Mixtape Version, longer singing intro)
06. Weak Spot (Mixtape Version, strings are louder)
07. Life Changes (Alternate Version with ODB intro, no RZA verse)
08. The Heart Gently Weeps (Demo Version Instrumental)
09. Wolves Part 2 (Chopped & Mixed by The Instructor) feat. Ghostface Killah & ODB
10. Watch Your Mouth (Revised Version, shorter, no RZA and U-God verses)
11. The Persuasions - Gypsy Woman (Campfire sample)
12. Nicholas Flagello - Wailing Wail (Unpredictable sample at 0:39)
13. Johnny Jenkins - I Walk On Gilded Splinters (Gun Will Go sample at 2:02)


https://mega.nz/#!lzxyRb7L!Iywwk7MNT...M6wTLrP1_VTMxM


Enjoy!

[Rev Jones]

Here's all of the alternate versions and other joints I've got... The quality isn't great on some of the tracks as they were radio rips from when RZA started dropping exclusives during his interviews for 8D.

01. Watch Your Mouth
02. Thug World
03. Wolves (Original Version)
04. The Heart Gently Weeps (Original Demo Version)
05. Stick Me For My Riches (Mixtape Version, longer singing intro)
06. Weak Spot (Mixtape Version, strings are louder)
07. Life Changes (Alternate Version with ODB intro, no RZA verse)
08. The Heart Gently Weeps (Demo Version Instrumental)
09. Wolves Part 2 (Chopped & Mixed by The Instructor) feat. Ghostface Killah & ODB
10. Watch Your Mouth (Revised Version, shorter, no RZA and U-God verses)
11. The Persuasions - Gypsy Woman (Campfire sample)
12. Nicholas Flagello - Wailing Wail (Unpredictable sample at 0:39)
13. Johnny Jenkins - I Walk On Gilded Splinters (Gun Will Go sample at 2:02)


https://mega.nz/#!lzxyRb7L!Iywwk7MNT...M6wTLrP1_VTMxM


Enjoy!

this is great, you da MVP!!

[hiphopjunky]

Here's all of the alternate versions and other joints I've got... The quality isn't great on some of the tracks as they were radio rips from when RZA started dropping exclusives during his interviews for 8D.

01. Watch Your Mouth
02. Thug World
03. Wolves (Original Version)
04. The Heart Gently Weeps (Original Demo Version)
05. Stick Me For My Riches (Mixtape Version, longer singing intro)
06. Weak Spot (Mixtape Version, strings are louder)
07. Life Changes (Alternate Version with ODB intro, no RZA verse)
08. The Heart Gently Weeps (Demo Version Instrumental)
09. Wolves Part 2 (Chopped & Mixed by The Instructor) feat. Ghostface Killah & ODB
10. Watch Your Mouth (Revised Version, shorter, no RZA and U-God verses)
11. The Persuasions - Gypsy Woman (Campfire sample)
12. Nicholas Flagello - Wailing Wail (Unpredictable sample at 0:39)
13. Johnny Jenkins - I Walk On Gilded Splinters (Gun Will Go sample at 2:02)


https://mega.nz/#!lzxyRb7L!Iywwk7MNT...M6wTLrP1_VTMxM


Enjoy!

Thank you