Feds are taking OUATIS, Judge has ruled....

[Cilvaringz]

You are right Ringz. I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic. Instead of saying,

"not involving the other members in the decision making process regarding this or that.

Thing is, we did actually. I've had a long ass chat with pretty much every Clan member about this before we even announced a thing. I didn't discuss the 88 years thing though. Thought it would be a minor clause which ended up being a headline and I think that's when sentiments started changing. Cause the first 8 months after the original announcement there wasn't really any beef about this record from anyone.

But lets be fair here, I'm just here to kinda get entertained by winding the same people up. Four years on, and some of the same folks are still butthurt.. and it's entertaining to me. Sorry, not fair. I'm in it for the next four if yall are though. But who would've thought ey? The most expensive album in the world, beats the world record held by the Beatles and Elvis, ending up in the hands of Lucifer himself and then being seized by Trump's federal government after the FBI and the House Of Representatives tweeted about it and Congress questioned about it... somebody give me a movie deal already.

[JZA/Jordon]

But let’s get to the meat here. If someone buys it in a federal auction they can do whatever the fuck they want with it?

[Cilvaringz]

of course not

[ShaolinArtStudent]

Who here already expected Ringz to say how the album can't be given now that the government has it.

He's the only one saying stuff but RZA and Co I haven't so .

Gov is gonna have fun.

[ta12113]

Do you know the laws regarding disclosures of USG auctions? I would suspect that if it does get auctioned, that either the bidding and/or final sale price would be made public?

Everybody keeps throwing the 2M number around, but as far as I can recall that’s never been confirmed. Please correct me if I am mistaken. In fact I thought Ringz stated somewhere that it was considerably off.

[JZA/Jordon]

You think the agreement Shkreli signed would be transferred to the government then to the buyer if auctioned by said government.

Good luck with that

[ShaolinArtStudent]

Who knows what the legal system will do with the album, but it'll be more amusing than whatever's on it.

[rainbow]

You know what's funny about all this... A lot of you are willing to quote whatever source you like to make your point that this is not a Wu-Tang Clan album, or that I did some snake shit, or whatever. Yet none of you would quote the book Cyrus Bozorgmehr wrote and give our side of the story. Personally I don't care, well maybe a bit otherwise I wouldn't bring it up, but it's some funny shit. You'll quote U-God talking about this album not being a real Wu-Tang album, and then just a few hours ago Uyi is talking about it being one (http://www.tmz.com/2018/03/06/wu-tan...me-in-shaolin/). You'll quote Masta Killa calling it a mixtape 3 years later, but you won't quote his original statement in the original Forbes piece which was an actual digital recording in which he expressed joy of being part of this "musical portrait". Go to Scluzay.com and hear both Ghostface and Raekwon talk about this as a Wu-Tang Clan album. No more, no less. Yet when two silly journalists from Bloomberg dangle a supposed 2 million dollar paycheck in front of two felons down on their luck, and two disgruntled managers, suddenly their opinions can constitute what a real Wu album is and what is not??? Better than RZA? Seriously?

And you might want to pull up an interview Masta Killa did with Peter Rosenberg. While Peter was playing Killa songs of his catalogue, they stumble upon Winter Warz. But it's not the version off Iron Man, but the version as used on Don't Be A Menace soundtrack. As you all know, that version starts with a different intro and Killa didn't recognize it, to which Peter asked (if my memory serves me right) something in the sphere of "didn't you know where this song would end up at when you were recording it?". To which Killa said that back then they would just record music, and things would end up at wherever RZA wanted to. And this is how a lot of the early works were recorded, according to the Abbott himself. This is why The Faster Blade and Assassination Day ended up on Iron Man, despite Ghostface not being on them. This is why a bunch of tracks on Beneath The Surface don't even have GZA on them. Does that make those albums fake Ghostface albums or fake GZA albums? The beats to Shadowboxin' and Ice Cream were made within a 2 hour span from one another. This was the organic approach that was taken back then when recording Wu music, no matter where it would end up at. You think "One Blood Under W", "In The Hood" and "Radioactive" were songs recorded for The W and Iron Flag? Those were songs recorded for Masta Killa's album. Are they now fake Wu-Tang Clan songs? If the logic you want to apply to OUATIS is justified than you should apply it to these songs as well. But it's bullshit, because that's how shit gets made. Organic recording. And thank God for that. Because we all know how the actual "hey be there at 3 tomorrow we're gonna record a Wu-Tang Clan album" approach has worked out for the last three Clan albums. You don't need my word for it, there's enough about it in the press. And this is why OUATIS sounds the way it sounds. Because there were no strings attached. Just pure organic recordings.

this is a nice rebuttal. i always find the infighting within the clan petty and a poor reflection on all involved - but it's difficult without being privy to all the details to know who's in the right. the points you make don't exactly invalidate the member's claims to revenue from the album, but it is an insight into how rza has operated the group.

all this said, i think people here were just generally annoyed and amused that you talked about this album for so long, many were looking forward to it, but then you revealed there would only be one copy and no one could hear it and it was now a "wu tang album". seeing this being glowingly reported on in mainstream media just seemed laughable to anyone who had been following it here. everything that has happened since has just added to the ridiculousness of this album.

the discussion of whether it's a "real" clan album or not has just stemmed from this disgruntled foundation.

[rainbow]

Does that mean the Saga Continues album is a fake Wu-Tang Clan album? Cause that's certainly being promoted as one and the Clan doesn't seem to mind or are actually promoting it as such.. and how does that bode for the upcoming Wu-Tang Clan album, the one orchestrated by Ghostface?

well, yeah, that is a fake clan album... it's a mathematics compilation album.

everyone here knows that a clan album is:

1) Almost entirely produced by RZA

2) Featuring all members performing at least several verses each - often 4, 5 or 6 on each track.

the second criterion has eroded with time, mainly due to clan members being petty fucks, but generally, the albums fit these criteria - and Math's bullshit and your album do not.

(for the record, this doesn't matter at all to me - i just want to hear good albums - but the fact that maths albums and yours suddenly became "Wu-Tang Clan" albums out of nowhere is pretty funny)

[brainghost]

But to take that further, would it then be fair to say that if there was a similar Wu-Tang Clan album done by 4th Disciple or True Master, would it equally be seen as a 'fake' Wu-tang Clan album? Does that mean the Saga Continues album is a fake Wu-Tang Clan album? Cause that's certainly being promoted as one and the Clan doesn't seem to mind or are actually promoting it as such.. and how does that bode for the upcoming Wu-Tang Clan album, the one orchestrated by Ghostface?

U-God's referring to it as "Our album", "my album", "Something that I made"... wanting to get it back so he can sell it, etc etc. And he did get paid. He got paid exactly what was agreed upon.

First off, I’m saying it’s a different thing and not fake! ”The Saga Continues" is called a Wu-Tang album, and not a Wu-Tang Clan album. Maybe I’m just being petty for seeing a difference between the two labels? I know I’m not the only one that does that though but maybe since it’s not an obvious difference, maybe it’s not a big deal for everyone. That’s what I’m talking about anyways, and what I believe many other people (including Wu members) are too.

So if any of the other producers you mentioned would do a similar project to ”Once Upon A Time In Shaolin”, imo they'd not be any more official than yours.
Though, if the members know about the recordings being for a Wu-Tang album, that's a difference. Not saying it’s better though! But when y’all agreed on the payment, did they know the plan for the project? Because from my point of view, if it’s a one-time payment, you’d maybe ask for less if it’s a verse that you believe is going to be featured on another artists project. If it’s for a release under the name of your own group and you’re only getting a one-time payment, I’d wan’t more! And if it’s a special deal like this one going down, I’d also feel a bit tricked if I didn’t have that information when I agreed on the amount of the payment.

Big up on replying, it’s an interesting discussion imo and that's what I'm after, not to attack you personal even if we might not agree on certain things!

[Cilvaringz]

Would love to show you the release forms with everyone, you'd see the whole thing much clearer, unfortunately I'm legally not allowed to.

[ForensikZ]

Ducked me bringing up the recent interviews wus done shitting on the project. Bout 3rd time thats been dismissed. Noted

Your comparing your Album to maths.

Math is a RESPECTED producer thats been on wu albums for years. You have TWO beats on wu albums, which must number in the 60s by now, and math has 50 beats.

Rza okd maths album and the MEMBERS okd maths album which is why its actually RELEASED

And true DID do a wu album except he used his own name for it instead of leeching off the wus name. Your album would do worse than his stop acting like you did this for any other reason except personal gain. This shit is tiring hearing you spin youre web of excuses.

Theres no excuses.

The govt holds yur album. They can sell it to anyone they want now; and im sure theres gonna be some heavy sampling lawsuits that come from this cuz you didnt clear any. You can deny any of this gon happen but you sold the album in america not morroco so you dont know whats gonna happen. And a piece of paper sayinf an album cant be hears for 88 years aint gon help matters.

You know some fbi wu stan is rippin that shit to his conputer RIGHT NOW. In the end itll be an mp3 album mark my words

So not only did you scam the wu to make yur album, you robbed the artists that provide the samples for “your” beats.

Keep slithering cilvaringz. Someone needs to teach you a thing about moral and business ETHICS cuz you broke EVERY rule to get your music this phantom “hype” cuz you know damn well NOONE cares about the music on here, they care about the spectacle. They care anout everything ELSE about it other than its a hip hop album.

You are NOT 4th disciple or math or true master. You aint even bronze nazareth. You not even arabian knight. Or supreme. Or ykim.

I dont wanna hear about these forbes articles Again until you address ugods book, meths tbs interviews and wus appearance on drink champs.

[JZA/Jordon]

The Gov can set any terms they want. Are you going to sue the feds? They can make the terms anything they want to any buyer

[Brolic Child]

But let’s get to the meat here. If someone buys it in a federal auction they can do whatever the fuck they want with it?

of course not

and why not? i mean perhaps they cant release it commercially to profit off it, but they certainly wont be bound by the terms of the shkreli contract. as thats something they didnt sign. i think that contract is pretty much void once the feds confiscate it.

[Jamal Arief]

album
ˈalbəm/
noun

• 2. a collection of recordings issued as a single item on CD, record, or another medium.

---

issue
ˈɪʃuː,ˈɪsjuː/
verb

• 1. supply or distribute (something) for use or sale
  

Wu "ontology" discussions are always tedious and boring, but in this case it's simply absurd to discuss who's album it is for the simple fact that until it is "issued" (for people to buy), it is not an album at all! For all intents and purposes, it is about as real as The Cure, The Abbott and the Drunk Monk, Swift & Changeable or any Shaka Amazulu project. But no doubt it's a hell of a story! And as far as that goes it has surely delivered (and I daresay even beyond the wildest dreams of Ringz himself)! And thus, whether you like it or not, it has been irrevocably added to the Wu-Tang saga. And regardless of whether you think him an upstart, a wanna"bee", a snake, a liar or just a bit of a prick, so has Ringz!

Peace.