Btw it's interesting to see how leaders of nations tried to get out of the pope's chokehold in history. On the one hand you've got Henry VIII in England who started his own religion. Then there was Philip IV of France (mentioned in the link above) who relegated the Pope's influence to JUST religion, not the running of the state. Opposite solutions with the same goal.
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Hanzo, very interesting analysis once again. Why, do you think, are the Saudis and their allies really boycotting Turkey?
This enlightened me somewhat. (I wasn't up to speed with the current situation.)
https://www.nordicmonitor.com/2020/1...turkish-goods/
Especially the last few paragraphs were of interest to me.
But would you say, in general, that nations like Saudi Arabia and Turkey are fighting for Muslim supremacy within the global Muslim community?
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First of all that NordicMonitor site is run by Gulenists. It posted various leaked documents which were stolen by them while they ran shit in Turkey. They are so fucking slimy it's unbelievable. The sites created by a guy named Abdullah Bozkurt who was the head of Gulen's number one newspaper back in the day.Originally Posted by Hal Incandenza
As for the issue. The Saudi-Turkey relationship has always been sour. Let us not forget that Wahhabism was born out of rebellion against the Ottoman Sultan and since then Turks have always looked on Saudi's as traitors.
However Saudi cash was funnelling into Erdogan's party the AKP for the past 20 years. His sons and daughters have charities and the former Saudi King donated like $400m to just one of them.
The beef starts with Erdogan being a proponent of political Islam and particularly the Muslim brotherhood. The gulf states obviously see this as a threat to their existence because political islam rejects monarchies. So when they saw that Erdogan among Arabs was the most popular Muslim leader it was a cause for concern.
Then the Qatar issue. The Saudi's tried to overrun Qatar, blockaded them and would have invaded. Turkey quickly intervened and sent troops to Qatar, in essence saving the Qataris from their gulf neighbours and ensuring that the Saudi's don't touch them. There's a Turkish military base in Qatar now. You had the issue in Libya, the Saudi-UAE backed Haftar was taking the capital Tripoli. Turkey sent in some guns and drones and Haftar had to retreat. Now Turkey is building a full on operational military airbase in Libya, it's foothold in the country got much stronger. Did Erdogan go in their to support an islamist leader? well on paper yes but the truth is Turkish companies had billion dollar contracts in Libya during the Ghadaffi era. The Tripoli government said they would honour these contracts which resulted in Turkey giving it's full support to them.
Then there's the case of Jamal Khasoggi's death the Washington Post journalist the Saudi's chopped up in Saudi Arabia's Istanbul consulate. The Saudi's thought nobody would know as there was no evidence but it was clear that Turkish intelligence was listening into the Saudi consulate so they had full audio of the Saudi's murdering Khashoggi and they handed this to the CIA, which everyone is now using as a tool to blackmail the Crown Prince. Erdogan isn't the one pressing this issue though, it's other Islamists who are aligned to him and in order not to upset them he hasn't stopped them but at the same time he hasn't lashed out at Saudi Arabia. The Saudi's have been way more vocal about the issue regarding Turkey, to this date no Turkish ministry has said anything anti-Saudi.
It's geopolitics at the end of the day. The Saudi's and UAE have gone full blown anti-Turkey. They even offered Pakistan money so they stopped airing a popular Turkish TV series. To counter the power of Turkish TV series's they spent like $40m on an Arab made series showing the Arab's fighting the evil Ottomans but it flopped. Now they are using their wealth to force other Arab states to boycott & take an anti-Turkish stance. This is also a reason why these states are forming ties with Israel now in order to get Washington on their side against Turkey.
The Saudi's use their wealth to flex their muslim muscle, Turkey-Erdogan is using his tough stance against Israel and the West to bolster his image as the voice of Muslims. It is a fight for muslim supremacy in a way but it's more to do with the Saudi's and other gulf states being scared that an aggressive Turkey is much more of a threat than Iran and Israel because a Sunni Muslim power can manipulate Arab public opinion more than Iran ever could.
for people reading along who, like me, could do with an overview of Sunni and Shia Muslims, this is a general article I read just after reading Hanzo's explanation.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...d%20on%20earth
the article dates back to 2015 so some of the references (the 2015 Hajj, the wars in Iraq and Syria) should be seen in that context
I am currently reading the following article, which dives more into the historical and theological differences between both groups. a bit more in depth than the previous article. the ending of the article explains how this difference plays out in some geopolitical conflicts
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/w...am-differ.html
as an outsider I cannot vouch for the information in these articles. everybody feel free to add on or correct where necessary
Last edited by Rev Jones; 10-28-2020 at 11:33 AM.
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That's one of the most unexpected Earthquakes. All the experts said a max Earthquake in that region would be 4.6, now you get a 7.0.
In a country that doesn't skimp off building materials or doesn't have an apartment fetish not much damage would be done. Izmir is a city of 4million, it's packed, it's dense and the buildings are old. 17 buildings have collapsed and these are apartment blocks with 40 or so apartments each.
Some blocks have just crushed the bottom floors cause what they do in Turkey is the bottom of the blocks would be a shop of some sort. One had a supermarket at the bottom. To open up space they cut the pillars of the building. So you have a huge apartment block whose main constructional pillars have been purposefully removed at the bottom. The local authorities turn a blind eye or don't even know about it.
From everything you post Turkey seems like an awful place.
A Greek-orthodox priest was shot twice in Lyon, France today as he was closing his church. He is in critical condition. The assailant is still at large. Looks like this violence is not gonna end anytime soon.
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French news reporting it was a personal dispute, the attacker being Greek himself.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...addin-lamp-con
Best news of the day. Conmen in India sell a genie lamp and even summoned one to impress the buyer.
thank you for the update. clearly I was jumping to conclusions
lol foolproof plan
the article below (in French) states it was a confrontation between two rival criminal gangs. kalashnikovs etc were used, heavy ammo. the report states one gang member was injured but there are rumors saying he got himself to hospital so it wasn't life threatening
https://www.midilibre.fr/2020/11/01/...de-9176340.php
this event did not reach national media (Belgium) here. thanks for posting it
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HANZO, that was an excellent read.
So Haftar is backed by both Saudis and Russia?
Whatever happened to Saif Ghadaffi ?
Any of you euro-peens have a theory on why there's a second/third wave of corona with the coming wave of re-lock downs. In the US they would have you believe the situation was taken more seriously than in the US. I personally doubt that, but idk. I think Europe's population density and relative close proximity culture plays a roll but I think there are wider implications on whether anywhere will ever 'go back to normal'
I recently read on DW that Belgium and the Netherlands are running out of hospital space.
Haftar is backed by mainly the UAE, then comes Russian support, the Saudi's aren't that active but are obviously on Haftar's side as they see Sarraj in Tripoli as Muslim brotherhood. The UAE is the main source of cash and weapons to Haftar though. Russian influence is more limited, they send mercenaries but that mercenary group backed out half way in the fight which weakened Haftar and allowed the Tripoli government to gain back a chunk of territory lost.
They said Saif Ghadaffi would be a good alternative to Tripoli and Haftar but no country really wants to back him. At the moment there's a ceasefire and both sides are waiting for the US elections and to see which side the US picks.
The main reason for the second wave hitting hard is the schools reopening. 12-18 year olds just don't give a shit and they have been the main source of the virus spreading. The situation was taken more seriously in German speaking countries but the Latin speakers and the English don't care that much. Life is pretty much normal in London apart from the lack of central London office workers. The government not alone encouraged but paid people to eat at restaurants and pubs which scientists have reported had a significant impact on the virus spreading.
Also the poorer errors have seen the virus spread more. People need to work and those who are self-employed for example don't get much help from the government. So poorer areas in Europe have been hit harder. The virus is more prominent in the poorer north of England than it is the south.
I remember when it first became a thing and the UK said they were going to just act normal and develop herd immunity. Which sounded like something someone who's worldview is partly developed by memes (and starts sentences with 'well actually') would say. I think it's safe to assume it's being handled disastrously there from the news coming out.
I can confidently bet that next to nobody is going to take their dumb ass vaccine either outside of Ironman and people that did theatre in college. Even if it's the saving grace, the US government (and likely many gov. in europe) have been playing games with their own credibility and political capital.
Like Hanzo said, schools reopening. Also, by July a lot of borders had reopened. European tourists flew to other European countries. It helped spread COVID again. Tourists returning by mid to end August + schools reopening in September = the perfect storm
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Was the north or south hit harder during the first wave?
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