raekwon gets even more desperate for clout....declares war on a z list wu tang member

[Jet Set]

The behind the scenes stories that come forward via things like Breakfast Club, Drink Champs or Vlad are pretty interesting. And they give us a colorful view inside the kitchen when some of our favourite albums were being cooked up. I'm all in for those.

But when it comes to accusations, like Rae going off at RZA or Divine in his recent VladTV interview. That is when it breaks for me nowadays. Because it shows that there is something that has not been talked about in a while, and you are now airing your dirty laundry out in the public. This might grab headlines in a short term, and will keep you talked about. The danger here is that that negativity will keep being associated with your brand, and the accused party. Plus it undermines the work you may have been trying to put in for you music or book.

Besides that, it is like I said earlier a one sides view if the other party is not asked for a reply. Because it would be nice to see what the other party had to say about a certain situation. For example, you could have a situation where you claim X was a cult leader during the recording session of Y. Only the person claiming this was always coming in late, drunk, stoned, in short unable to perform, according to X. And that might be why this was going on. Details like this are pretty important I think.

Now you could do an interview with the other party. Only that would create the possibility of creating a ping pong match in the media where you keep shouting stuff at each other through outlets. Something I think we saw around 2008 during the 8 Diagrams release. With the Clan you are actually talking about a group of brothers of the sort. And they apparently can't call each other to discuss some grievances, and work it out. Which in turn is sort of a bad show to the public, because you used to be tight knit group. But nowadays you don't even call/talk to each other any more?

What would work? If there are accusations, in articles about something, the writers tend to ask for a reaction on this. But a live interview? Could something with both parties actually work? Or are we approaching Jerry Springer or some therapy session?


Good point about Vlad though. He does not push anyone, though sometimes his questions seem to be leading to me. The artists still answers, though I wonder if they have the ability to cut some stuff?


Lol, just remembered that U-God interview with Vlad. He wasn't that happy in that one either. Almost makes me think that they guys should go on a holiday in a mansion together for a month or so and just drop M to talk some shit through. Now that would be therapeutic.

the great martin shkreli saved what was left of wu tang so called "legacy" by buying the cd nobody can supposedly hear for 88 years
i tried to listen to wu tang debut cd and fell asleep 30 seconds into their only hit "cream"

Truth be told, the first 30 seconds of C.R.E.A.M. are pretty soothing.

[TSA]

Masta Killa handled Vlad like a G. Once he sensed fed like questioning you literally see him stop, smile, then give even more chill and peaceful answers than his previously chill and peaceful answers. U-God wasn't playing with him either lol

But what happened w/ wutang is pretty obvious. Rza was taking care of everything while the others were getting taken care of. All mistakes and incompetencies fell on Rza. The other member's previous ignorance about the music industry and business fell on Rza. The results of their unseriousness fell on Rza. Rza, seeing how much the put on him, decided to take more control of the operation because he's most competent and if it fails they'll put it on him anyways.

Rza also favored certain members, namely his best friend, Ghost. Ghost got songs from other ppl albums and you can hear the level of effort being significantly higher on Ironman as far as production and budget. Rza also signed Ghost on directly because he was setting him up to be a big star and missed the chance with Method Man.

The rest of the group got jealous of the Ghost situation, and even more jealous of Method Man for his natural (inevitable) level of success and appeal.
Method Man, who is fueled by vibes and fun, got unmotivated once the hate from the other members got too heavy, especially since he, like Rza, were pulling a disproportionate amount of weight as far as dedication and seriousness.

The element that made them all believe in the project was dirty. As he became more caught up in drugs and spiralled out of control, they were stuck with each other. Like being at a that everyone came to drink at but someone took all the alcohol and left.

Rae likely led that hater shit because he competitive and he (and ghost who was also probably a hater) were picking issues with ppl Method Man had professional relationships with (Puff, Big, mobb deep eventually etc)

Method Man started having more fun elsewhere with Redman who doesn't get jealous and can hold his own as far as presence and effort.

Rza, now having full control and being strange as all hell, starting making things more Rza-ish. This is a vital ingredient but I get the sense that dirt, ghost rae and ugod keep his nerdiness in check

As the music got nerdier the audience got whiter and bigger but they lost the 'source' (the hood).

Rza saw this as an opening, the rest saw it as a weakness.

Wutang fell out of hip hop conversations but gained a bigger audience.

Divine and Power were clearly stealing everyone's money. Rza was to to an extent, but it was mainly divine and power. The group is held together solely by the respect they all have for Rza so losing that is too expensive for any of them to risk, which is why it's easy for Rza to calm them down and keep it together but hard for them to be open about the issues they were having under his watch.

Rae and Ghost are extremely pissed about Rza's money politics. Rza took advantage of the collective's ignorance about business to enrich himself. Method Man would rather be around people that aren't haters but still has love for the group. Ol Dirty being inactive, then dying too the 'focus' away from what they liked about the project and onto what pissed them off.

Rza can't be blamed because ultimately laziness and entitlement made the incomes unbalanced, but he likely only disclosed info when asked rather than up front.

Rza got tired of dealing with brain midgets, but doesn't know how to go about not doing that because he's a hood nigga.

Divine is clearly not allowed to be in the picture anymore

Rae and Ghost feel out over Stapleton v. Park Hill shit among their circles ( what would become cream team and theodore) and likely Rae being a hater.

Rae is still necessary to keep shit from getting too goofy (a better tomorrow etc) and detached from reality, but Rza don't respect his input anymore so he has to turn up the volume to force Rza's hand (going public). Rza not being willing to listen to the others and not having dirty who he fully respects, or Gza who is clearly tapped out of Wutang and will be active in small controlled doses, makes him a 1 man echo chamber and Rza alone isn't good but Rza plus others is great.

Deck feels robbed and the rest of the members think he was robbed too, but he's also the victim of not having personal hustle. Masta Killa is just happy to hang out and is a fan of the group more than the other group members so he's not bothered and is generally enlightened. Ugod will tell you exactly what's pissing him off. Cappadonna is what all the members of the group want to be, but being 'old special ed with the plate in the head' gets i the way and frustrates his efforts (but it doesn't bother him)

They'll all older now and realize they, not Rza was the problem. Rza equates his mistakes to listening to them too much (which there's evidence of him being right).

[Cilvaringz]

Nah yall misunderstood. I'm not going on nobody show. I was asking more in a general sense how yall felt about these type of interviews. Some interesting angles though.

[zooruka]

I all seriousness I’m not cool with these type of interviews because I think the interviewer (Vlad) is just looking for some sort of reaction. With that said I wouldn’t mind a Cilvaringz take on the whole OUATIS saga just to hear his side of the story about the album and his relationship with Wu tang in general?

[Rev Jones]

Nah yall misunderstood. I'm not going on nobody show. I was asking more in a general sense how yall felt about these type of interviews. Some interesting angles though.

If you were to share info on your own terms and in your format of choice, I still wouldn't do it if it'd be airing out stuff to set the record straight.

I enjoyed reading the OUATIS book because it was informative, an exciting read and it helped me understand the purpose of the project better. It explained a lot of stuff in a matter of fact, respectful way without shitting on anybody.

At the time of reading the book I was let down by Martin's antics which were clearly not in line with his respectful behaviour toward Wu during price negotiations, as described in the book. While being disgusted about Martin's behaviour, basically world class trolling and 'look at me, world!' neediness, I now understood more clearly why a person such as Martin was able to purchase the album, as he was showing respect towards hip-hop and Wu during negotiations.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you set the record straight on your own terms, in your own format, focus on info not feelings and keep it positive without shitting on anybody for their fuckboi behaviour, it MIGHT still work. It worked for me on the OUATIS book Cyrus wrote. But people you mention while setting the record straight might still feel the urge to reply with that '65% truth - 35% saving face by twisting some of the facts' mixture I was talking about in my previous post

If it's old stuff you want to get off your chest, also the question comes to mind : is it worth it for you? Sure, we'd all read it on here and discuss it - I'd be the first to weigh in lol. But would you be doing yourself any favours? You KNOW what the truth is, I don't know if it will help you bringing it to light.

Also, some of these Killa Bees and other people in the business will still want to work with you later. If you make a clean break with them in public, telling the world what really went down, it might help you in the short term as you get to vent and share the truth with people. But in the long run these people will not want to work with you again because now everybody knows about their behaviour and they're unhappy about that or in denial

You might not want to work with these people now, but maybe in 5 to 10 years an interesting project comes along and you still might want to rekindle working relationships

When Beez or generals for that matter twist the truth in public honestly I'd just laugh it off or remain silent, which is what you've done so far

[Rev Jones]

As for Vlad type interviews, sure these people are 'just doing their jobs' but honestly how sad is your life when your career consists of interviewing rappers trying to get them to say stuff that'll put others in a bad light?

yeah hip-hop has always been a competitive world but it's been who's got the better beats, rhymes, word play and on record disses. The whole exposing the 'what really happened behind the scenes' thing comes with no guarantees of truth whatsoever. It's people HOPEFULLY trying to remember what happened and how they experienced it.

Hip-hop journalism is dead now and was never that much alive in the first place.

[ShaDynasty]

Some interesting points in the thread. Cilvaringz would have more supporters if he'd done interviews because people could take his side if they knew what it was, but he'd also be fanning the flames. I guess the time to do interviews is when you have new music dropping.

And you're right ringz, I think we are into behind the scenes drama, but the fans always feel hurt by infighting cos it feels like we've been lied to, or that the artists themselves don't respect the thing they've built as much as we do.

[Jet Set]

Nice reaction TSA.

Hip-hop journalism is dead now and was never that much alive in the first place.

Interesting. I don't agree nor disagree. Because a lot of the journalism in the past was connected to promo of course. (Some of these online interviews also had basic questions.) And I do believe there is an option here to do some proper journalism. I personally know a writer in NL that also has some bigger aspirations. And just like the maturing of vdeo games, hiphop had also matured. So there is actually a space now for proper articles on people or things. But those won't be fitting within the scope of your favourite blog or news outlet.

What I have been seeing though, is a rise of documentary series. For example the BET Chronicles. I haven't seen them yet, but I heard Master P was a big factor in the narrative for the No Limit series. With the producers Beats By The Pound even speaking out about it. The Wu series was also mainly a directed by the group if I am correct? Fill me in though if wrong.

On Youtube, you can see various video essays and the sorts. One guy I used to watch was Traplord Ross. It was just bearable because of his constant need to diss things and push his opinion through. And I think I missed some of the backgrounds. In comparison, there was this guy doing 30-50 minute pieces on Kanye West albums. And these where thoroughly researched with quotes from interviews all over. Reconstructing the whole piece. The only thing missing would be an interview with the actual people about it after the fact.

So there really is a place for it right now.

Some interesting points in the thread. Cilvaringz would have more supporters if he'd done interviews because people could take his side if they knew what it was, but he'd also be fanning the flames. I guess the time to do interviews is when you have new music dropping.

And you're right ringz, I think we are into behind the scenes drama, but the fans always feel hurt by infighting cos it feels like we've been lied to, or that the artists themselves don't respect the thing they've built as much as we do.

Nothing is more hurtful than your favourite artist shitting on your favourite group or album. And just tearing it a part like it was all wack, and never meant anything. Think you really touched a core here of what Rae the hater is doing here. It's all fun and games to hear him talk shit, untill he starts talking shit about his brothers. A thing that should maybe be kept behind closed doors to be resolved.


Looks like Rae does recognize that it was business. And that he also had a part in it.

[Mumm Ra]

that was a perfect breakdown TSA I pretty much agree with everything
but I don't think RZA even took advantage of them to that degree
after getting older and responsible for more people/ things I can really feel RZA's position, he literally deserved 90% of what Wu-Tang grossed
to imagine the amount of work it took to create, mix, master and curate all those immaculate albums is insane
while doing that he was outshining half of them lyrically when that was the other member's only job. also trying to teach them how to rhyme/ keep them out of jail/ etc
RZA could've charged any other artist 100K plus per beat for a decade
Ten dudes expecting one person to produce them a perfect album and catapult them into stardom
I remember in the Wu Documentary RZA looked truly hurt when they signed away their Wu-Tang contracts after everything he's done, now they want to have a say in how Wu-Tang 'the company' is ran after they begged to go solo, and RZA has since increased Wu's value 100 fold by himself
U-God and Raekwon went on to try their own labels out of spite, lost hundreds of thousands and couldn't manage a single successful artist while RZA made 10 dudes millionaires who later sued him. The fact RZA isn't spiteful is astounding.

[Andy Warhov]

Throw Raekwon clothes in the fire. Shit looks horrible like a MAGA deerhunter from tha hood

[Mythrandir]

that was a perfect breakdown TSA I pretty much agree with everything
but I don't think RZA even took advantage of them to that degree
after getting older and responsible for more people/ things I can really feel RZA's position, he literally deserved 90% of what Wu-Tang grossed
to imagine the amount of work it took to create, mix, master and curate all those immaculate albums is insane
while doing that he was outshining half of them lyrically when that was the other member's only job. also trying to teach them how to rhyme/ keep them out of jail/ etc
RZA could've charged any other artist 100K plus per beat for a decade
Ten dudes expecting one person to produce them a perfect album and catapult them into stardom
I remember in the Wu Documentary RZA looked truly hurt when they signed away their Wu-Tang contracts after everything he's done, now they want to have a say in how Wu-Tang 'the company' is ran after they begged to go solo, and RZA has since increased Wu's value 100 fold by himself
U-God and Raekwon went on to try their own labels out of spite, lost hundreds of thousands and couldn't manage a single successful artist while RZA made 10 dudes millionaires who later sued him. The fact RZA isn't spiteful is astounding.

Spot on! Couldn't have said it better myself. 👏

"Wherever evil (and lucidly defined logic) exists... Mumm Ra lives!"

[Cilvaringz]

Anyone got the Rae book in PDF? cant order that shit here in Morocco and dont have a kindle

[Rev Jones]

I see Perlego has the book in PDF and, to others reading along in this thread, the site offers a free 14 day trial period.

if some of yall are pressured for time maybe not that handy though? IDK their policy on DLing to read off line within the trial period (probably a no no)

https://www.perlego.com/book/2526796...utang-clan-pdf

first time I come across this company btw

[Cilvaringz]

unavailable in my region... meh

[Pattch82]

I’ve got the audiobook if anyone wants it?

Let me know.


Peace!