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Thread: Excluding black immigrants from hip-hop's creation

  1. #1

    Default Excluding black immigrants from hip-hop's creation

    I keep getting into arguments on Twitter with the "FBA" ("Foundational Black Americans") crowd about hip-hop's origins. FBAs are black nationalists who, because of the reparations discussion, have become hostile to any immigrated black Americans identifying with or using African-American culture. Problem is hip-hop never strictly belonged to descendants of American slaves. DJ Kool Herc (who is credited as the first hip-hop DJ) was Jamaican-American. Grandmaster Flash is from Barbados. The Bronx, where hip-hop originated, has always been a melting pot and black New Yorkers have always been diverse. African-Americans didn't migrate into NYC until after the 1940s when public housing forced them there. Before then, most New Yorkers were immigrants from Jewish to Italian to Irish to Asian to African to Caribbean. There's a reason so many rappers and DJs are descendants of immigrants like Biggie and NORE. And it also explains the pan-Africanism and Islam in early NY hip-hop.

    I think of hip-hop as a black American artform. We pioneered this. But to say its by & for African-American ethnicity only is wrong and desperate IMO. These FBA types are mostly Southern types who are uncultured and don't know NYC is multi-cultural and just want to claim hip-hop as a stolen invention because these individuals like co-opting other black people's greatness and excluding some black people. Its very anti-black to me. And being so nationalist and defensive of America against other blacks is pathetic.

    It seems this whole debate heated up when BET credited Puerto Ricans as co-founders of hip-hop or something at some recent awards show? That might be an exaggeration but its not erasing black people to admit a lot of the first people hearing and promoting hip-hop were Latinx. They were there before most black Americans even heard of hip-hop.

    Hip-hop is the biggest musical genre now and the biggest industry blacks have created, so I get why self-identified FBAs want to claim and gatekeep it and make it serve their agenda only. But its ignorant and against hip-hop's original sentiment of blacks bringing people together. Black Americans created hip-hop but they weren't specifically African-American.

    And FBAs like to discredit Kool Herc or any Caribbean 1st generation hip-hop legends and say "hip-hop" started in the Jazz era. But arguing hip-hop is just MCing, "rapping" or looping breakbeats is idiotic because WHITES were doing those things first. Hip-hop in 1970s NYC brought MCing & breaks together. MCs didn't even rhyme until years later.
    Last edited by Sam the Seed; 05-16-2023 at 05:35 PM.
    "Why are you looking hard with a hood on and Timberland boots, staring at me for one hour..? When you could walk up and shake my hand? Why?"

    Kool Keith, "Intro" Black Elvis/Lost in Space

  2. #2

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    Semi-related: Twitter is coming for this young Asian girl in NYC for "sounding black" and cultural appropriation. https://twitter.com/VirginHoelite/st...16652081102848

    But most black Americans don't sound like her and random native New Yorkers from all races do. Its a NY accent. Jews and Italians can sound like this. But America mostly knows this accent as "black" from the stereotypical black 90s NY rapper thanks to hip-hop.
    "Why are you looking hard with a hood on and Timberland boots, staring at me for one hour..? When you could walk up and shake my hand? Why?"

    Kool Keith, "Intro" Black Elvis/Lost in Space

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    PRODIGAL SUN Apocalypse's Avatar
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    I feel hip-hop will be the last popular "black music" style.

    Nowadays all races are melted and the next popular music style will be raceless.

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    Gehoxagogen ShaDynasty's Avatar
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    Its a lot of misunderstanding and oversimplifying history.

    The last 10 years have shown us that people just believe the narrative that they like the most. Hip Hop is black culture, but its also always been diverse. Which is confusing I guess but whatever, figure it out.

    Cultural appropriation is a bullshit concept that isn't actually relevant to real life. Its not how culture works or has ever worked. Culture doesn't stay the same, and race is such a loose, emotion based concept anyway.

    Its an idea that hack writers constantly report on because they know it annoys people on both sides of the argument. Clickbait.

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    Don't grab my jacket dunn Hollow Dartz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Seed View Post

    I think of hip-hop as a black American artform. We pioneered this. But to say its by & for African-American ethnicity only is wrong and desperate IMO.

    .
    No FBA has been saying this. The whole point is to stop trying to credit others with the origins of the culture.
    Only a few years ago Hip Hop purists may have felt superior listening to hard core while their less enlightened companions snacked on commercial rap. As Shaolin research began to point out the overwhelming benefits of raw production, true hip hop enthusiasts started turning back to traditional styles. Wu-Tang in particular, has been shown to myriad beneficial effects, from warding off ignorance and poverty to reducing the risk of incarceration and death.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow Dartz View Post
    No FBA has been saying this. The whole point is to stop trying to credit others with the origins of the culture.
    How are you going to tell me what others said to me? They constantly say only "FBA" created hip-hop. And if you point out Caribbeans who were 1st Gen or that Kool Herc is the figurehead of hip-hop as a culture & genre, they just discredit him and say "hip-hop goes back to the 1940s" which is bull. https://twitter.com/tariqnasheed/sta...02730635476992

    I can't find proof of a self-identified "FBA"/"ADOS" saying hip-hop is FOR them only but there's tons of posts where they claim hip-hop culture is African-American/"FBA", other ethnicities aren't allowed to criticize them about hip-hop and no other groups were early contributors. And when you counter them with evidence they just call you an immigrant. Its the ignorant revisionism they claim all these other groups are doing to them, which is based mostly in facts.
    Last edited by Sam the Seed; 05-18-2023 at 02:56 AM.
    "Why are you looking hard with a hood on and Timberland boots, staring at me for one hour..? When you could walk up and shake my hand? Why?"

    Kool Keith, "Intro" Black Elvis/Lost in Space

  7. #7

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    https://twitter.com/standonhistory/s...73154347503617
    https://twitter.com/HenriettaSnacks/...77601405337600

    And its clear this topic is about pushing FBAs' rightwing anti-immigrant rhetoric to black America; not actually defending or tracing the roots of hip-hop
    Last edited by Sam the Seed; 05-18-2023 at 02:56 AM.
    "Why are you looking hard with a hood on and Timberland boots, staring at me for one hour..? When you could walk up and shake my hand? Why?"

    Kool Keith, "Intro" Black Elvis/Lost in Space

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    Don't grab my jacket dunn Hollow Dartz's Avatar
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    "But to say its by & for African-American ethnicity only is wrong and desperate IMO"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Seed View Post
    I can't find proof of a self-identified "FBA"/"ADOS" saying hip-hop is FOR them only
    I rest my case.
    Only a few years ago Hip Hop purists may have felt superior listening to hard core while their less enlightened companions snacked on commercial rap. As Shaolin research began to point out the overwhelming benefits of raw production, true hip hop enthusiasts started turning back to traditional styles. Wu-Tang in particular, has been shown to myriad beneficial effects, from warding off ignorance and poverty to reducing the risk of incarceration and death.

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    Shit's getting real crazy out there

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    'The Fourhorsemen' TSA's Avatar
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    If you win or lose the argument, what changes?
    Sometimes it's fun to go back and forth, but most of the time it's just Twitter being good at pissing you off enough to up their general engagement.

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    'The Fourhorsemen' TSA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I feel hip-hop will be the last popular "black music" style.

    Nowadays all races are melted and the next popular music style will be raceless.
    yeah but none of the other ones make unique music or take risks with new styles and trends. They just do what's already on. I've never had an asian or a white guy hand me a mixtape and most non-black popular artists have a higher than average amount of machinery behind them which limits risk taking. So the new styles of music will probably continue to come from black people. You get that fake experimental stuff from other races (and middle class raised black ppl and Rza) that's usually just a bunch of sound effects, but that's more ego masturbation than anything.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hollow Dartz View Post
    "But to say its by & for African-American ethnicity only is wrong and desperate IMO"



    I rest my case.
    Are you illiterate? You said no one is saying hip-hop is for and by African Americans only. I showed you proof of them saying its BY them alone. And just because I can't find a specific tweet saying its FOR them, doesn't mean they aren't saying and believing it. Dumb niggas, man.
    "Why are you looking hard with a hood on and Timberland boots, staring at me for one hour..? When you could walk up and shake my hand? Why?"

    Kool Keith, "Intro" Black Elvis/Lost in Space

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSA View Post
    If you win or lose the argument, what changes?
    Sometimes it's fun to go back and forth, but most of the time it's just Twitter being good at pissing you off enough to up their general engagement.
    I don't care about winning an argument. Its dangerous seeing rightwing black nationalists demonizing black Americans for having immigrant roots. And they use hip-hop to do it with ahistorical made-up shit. Hip-hop's roots are from NYC's ghetto melting pot. Its stupid saying only the people whose ancestors were American slaves count and that hip-hop belongs to every random "FBA" who had nothing to do with its foundation.

    I think its stupid to say hip-hop belongs to any group, but if they want to be tribal and racist, it probably belongs to Jamaican-Americans first, African-Americans second and then Puerto Ricans. I just don't like mfs ignoring facts and twisting history for their own agenda.
    "Why are you looking hard with a hood on and Timberland boots, staring at me for one hour..? When you could walk up and shake my hand? Why?"

    Kool Keith, "Intro" Black Elvis/Lost in Space

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    The Smell of The Future LORD NOSE's Avatar
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