What do Wu members have against Wu management (Divine, Power, Mook, etc)?

[Sam the Seed]

Anyone know exactly how the Wu was managed then vs now? And what are members mad about? I know U-God was pissed once that it cost tons of money to put the "W" on his album cover and he thought they watered down the group by signing so many Killa Beez. Rae has said Divine is a snake and the main reason he doesn't want to do group projects besides live shows. I know the Wu wear deal pissed off members and they didn't see any money from it. Deck said on Vlad that Meth & RZA switched to Hollywood because music business is so dirty and inconsistent and Deck blamed Wu's management for the group not working together often.

From my perspective, it seems RZA and Wu management wanted to get better solo deals for themselves and everyone else after their bad deals as Genius and Prince Rakeem. So they took a bad group deal and didn't help other members get good deals, just big deals that RZA and Wu management ate off of. Seems RZA knows its fucked up and tries to take care of members as much as he can but also doesn't mind his family taking the lion's share because it is essentially his group.

Does anyone know ODB's story? Why he didn't want the Wu on "Nigga Please" and why he got his own separate management after it. It looks like Wu mismanaged him and he blew the giant advance he got for it and made nothing off its huge success like his cousins probably did. I've heard people say ODB was just out of control high and pushing Wu away but Ghost, Rae & Meth copied him by trying to get away from Wu management and not repping Wu Tang. I think ODB kept the Wu features off NP because he didn't want to pay anymore than he had to after getting star producers and big marketing, etc. I also think Wu management let him get away with missing shows and things because they were family & he was more successful and that pissed off other members who were making shows and trying to blow up.

[ForensikZ]

Variety of reasons. Ie rae catching power stealing

but id assume thr major issue is the clans success gave all of the management a way to put on artists. So theyd sign a whole buncha c and d list emcees and gave them life based off the wu name. They prolly didnt evrn pay these artists , so they were just plugged in for being cheap and in the end, it hurt the overall brand in making the money.


wu tang records
razorsharp
protect ya neck records
digital records
36 records. Etc

most of these labels exceot rwzorsharp n wutang records were just side checks in the pocket for them all. They made money, but hurt the bugger brand by associating all those wannabe artists with wu.

and im not talking about vintage killer bees ala sunz and killarmy. Talking about the dradly venoms, mmo, wu syndicates of the world. They werent bad. Syndicate had a dope album too. But calling them wu causes brand contusion which hurt the main 10.

[Sam the Seed]

U-God and Meth have talked about that but that happened about 20 years ago. The group is mad now about management's recent dealings and contracts. RZA and Wu management do make bank today off all these Wu fam jabronis tho.

[MakCorleone]

Well, tbh i could understand both sides.
I’ve heard Rae, Meth talking about Divine.
But, if we see it from the business side i bet they were spending too much money at the time they were building their brand.
Remember that ODB doc made by his cousin Raison, Divine was talking about how his aunt and Dirty fking business up signing with Roc-a-fella.
It sucks that Inspectah Deck never got the shine he deserved, but was also his fault in some ways too.
It hurt them individually and also hurt the brand as a whole

[RADIOACTIVE MAN]

its really simple. the music business is really brutal. unless you got merch and get alot of show, you are gonna be left in the dust broke. the lions share of sales usually goes to the management. it can leave a sour taste in your mouth

[David Daniel Davis]

Very true, if you want to make it in the world of rap, you have to do pretty much any thing else except rap. The artist is ALWAYS the last person to get paid. Better off just learning to be a recording engineer and cross over into music production from there

[Sam the Seed]

y'all are talking newer 360 deals where bigger labels take almost all the profit from artists. but the Wu existed before then and GZA and RZA rapped about labels raping artists early on.

most artists' management do everything to NOT let the labels rape them. Dirty had his own manager when he signed with Roc-a-fella, so obviously he didn't like Wu management and it seems most have left them too. Wu management only manages random Killa Beez and the group projects/tours. the solo members have their own management now, which explains Meth acting more than rapping.

it seems the solo Wu generals are unhappy with how much management still get and how bad they were at business in the Wu's heyday.

[Hollow Dartz]

y'all are talking newer 360 deals where bigger labels take almost all the profit from artists. but the Wu existed before then and GZA and RZA rapped about labels raping artists early on.

most artists' management do everything to NOT let the labels rape them. Dirty had his own manager when he signed with Roc-a-fella, so obviously he didn't like Wu management and it seems most have left them too. Wu management only manages random Killa Beez and the group projects/tours. the solo members have their own management now, which explains Meth acting more than rapping.

it seems the solo Wu generals are unhappy with how much management still get and how bad they were at business in the Wu's heyday.

Wrong. If that were the case they wouldn't be complaining like they used to. In my opinion it goes both ways. First of all the industry is definitely setup for the Artist to get the least amount of money. As an artist you have to do your best to manage your money properly and expand your brand. Alot of Wu members were not really doing this until basically after 8 Diagrams. But even then they were still depending on the Indie labels. I think Raekwon was the first one to really understand how this shit works. That Run he went on after 8 Diagrams up until Shaolin vs Wu-Tang was great for him. He was an owner and started selling his own Merch. He was eating great around that time. Most of the other clan members still don't have a feel for the independent game, be over charging for everything lol

[RADIOACTIVE MAN]

Don’t kid yourself bro, 360 deals were here way before hip hop, infact some of the deals were even worse than a 360. A lot of black musicians especially who weren’t educated in the music business were usually left penniless and without ownership of their content , I’d argue that back then the deals were more draconian than even a 360. Even one of the biggest artists out there Elvis, suffered from horrible deal practices and the lions share paradox . So it stands to reason that wu ain’t no different , it’s even worse when there are 9 men involved making the money that a solo artist would make with one album and having to spread the share of those innings , then there are label costs, A&r costs, Rza for instance as the primary producer would probably get more as he incurs sampling costs etc.

[Sam the Seed]

Wrong. If that were the case they wouldn't be complaining like they used to. In my opinion it goes both ways. First of all the industry is definitely setup for the Artist to get the least amount of money. As an artist you have to do your best to manage your money properly and expand your brand. Alot of Wu members were not really doing this until basically after 8 Diagrams. But even then they were still depending on the Indie labels. I think Raekwon was the first one to really understand how this shit works. That Run he went on after 8 Diagrams up until Shaolin vs Wu-Tang was great for him. He was an owner and started selling his own Merch. He was eating great around that time. Most of the other clan members still don't have a feel for the independent game, be over charging for everything lol

so your silly ass is agreeing with everything i said. and more members were on indie labels since the early 00s. Rae, Ghost and Meth learned how not to get pimped from negative experiences on big labels. their issues with Wu management is about the GROUP albums and shows. they've said that 1000 times.

[Sam the Seed]

Don’t kid yourself bro, 360 deals were here way before hip hop, infact some of the deals were even worse than a 360. A lot of black musicians especially who weren’t educated in the music business were usually left penniless and without ownership of their content , I’d argue that back then the deals were more draconian than even a 360. Even one of the biggest artists out there Elvis, suffered from horrible deal practices and the lions share paradox . So it stands to reason that wu ain’t no different , it’s even worse when there are 9 men involved making the money that a solo artist would make with one album and having to spread the share of those innings , then there are label costs, A&r costs, Rza for instance as the primary producer would probably get more as he incurs sampling costs etc.

true, there were bad deals but its bullshit to say most or top artists had it worse than 360s. labels didn't take merch or show money as a general rule and the Wu would've found ways around this because they had so many solo deals. Wu's issue is RZA (knowing how labels can pimp artists) started doing similar to other members and Killa Beez through management and treating it almost like an independent label. Wu management were sorry middle men unlike most big management teams. Deck has said his issue isn't with having them as managers but they were amateur because they're RZA's family. they get personal feelings involved and RZA would let them get away with being lazy and overpaid.

[RADIOACTIVE MAN]

Wu’s issue is that they didn’t all individually have representation/ lawyers to actually negotiate deals based on the individuals interests . You do have a point about Rza, he handled most of that but even he wasn’t that culpable, there was a heirachy even above him that flourished off these men. If you know. You know .

[Sam the Seed]

Wu’s issue is that they didn’t all individually have representation/ lawyers to actually negotiate deals based on the individuals interests . You do have a point about Rza, he handled most of that but even he wasn’t that culpable, there was a heirachy even above him that flourished off these men. If you know. You know .

Yeah, I shouldn't make it sound like RZA took advantage of his fellow group members (even tho some feel that way) but he sides with his family/management over his boys. And the management logically looked out for RZA 1st, GZA and ODB next and everyone else last unless they were profitable.

[RADIOACTIVE MAN]

Which if i were to play devils advocate makes sense . In all honesty , it would make sense for especially Rza and gza to handle the business and get priority over everyone else being that they were already established in the business before everyone else. They had deals and reputations curated before anyone even knew who the other members were so one could argue that all these gentlemen even getting a path into the business was because of Rza and gza which actually is fact.

[Sam the Seed]

Yeah, but no one was checking for either guy. RZA's production would never become famous without the rapping of all these cats. And GZA's great and taught a lot of these guys how to rap (ODB taught them how to perform) but they needed these rough hood guys to legitimize their image as grimy hardcore rappers. GZA and RZA weren't real thugs or appealing to the mainstream. ODB was and was the real star of the group.

Those 2 deserve creative leadership and the extra money that comes with that, but the group and each album is held up by everyone pretty equally. But I don't think the problem has ever been getting compensated. Its which members get favoritism and business opportunities. Because there's always been a hierarchy.

Wu Tang were originally just all grimy tough neighborhood cats who were show posse for "All in Together Now" (RZA, GZA & ODB). It wasn't even the other 6 members. Thats why they refer to Wu Tang as a family and like 100 guys. People like Deck, Cappa and Meth were just rappers RZA was friendly with because he was a producer and befriended cats who could rap. The only ones he had deep friendships with are Rae and Ghost partly because they had money, who didn't bond until the rap group formed.

So U-God, Deck & Masta Killa have always been treated like 3rd string by RZA just because he's least personal with them. Which is a shame because Deck is maybe the #1 MC in the group and U-God deserved more spotlight but he was really just Meth and Rae's rhyme partner. Meth, Rae & Ghost are the B-team, which is why they did that Wu-Massacre joint. They know their positions. Another kinda bullshit deal because they were the younger, flyer dudes with pop appeal. And RZA, GZA and ODB have always been the ones the management took care of most.

I think ODB dying and pretty much leaving the group early on messed up the Wu's political dynamic more than anything because a lot of members preferred his party style and focus on money more than RZA and GZA's serious "artiness" and MCing. And part of ODB leaving was him being treated as #3 when he was everyone's favorite. He wanted to lead as much as RZA and GZA, which is why he had Brooklyn Zu showcased so much. Also, RZA and GZA are older so they fell out of love with rap before everyone else which leaves everyone without leadership or anyone pushing for new projects. But there's nothing anyone can do because its RZA's group and he put all of them on. Wu management is really what gives him that authority over the group, which is probably why he doesn't help change it even tho he knows they suck. They got their jobs just to protect RZA's leadership.