Are famous rappers obligated to help out older/underground rappers?

[Goldenchild]

I was thinking about how Canibus went on a rant years ago about J Cole, who's apparently a huge Canibus fan and quoted his verses. Then Canibus made a clown move by making a long-ass YouTube video talking shit about Cole for not putting him on a song or album. He was on some "You wanna show me love? Then put me on a song!" I kinda see his point. Personally, if I was a Cole or Kendrick or whatever, I'd do more to show love to the MCs I grew up on. Why not put Slick Rick or Meth or Ghost or Chino XL or Ras Kass or whoever on your album? Give them a boost, give them more fans.

Eminem and Jay-Z and the younger super stars could resurrect literally ANY rapper's career, so why not?? Help out Rakim, Kool G Rap, Cage, Dead Prez, Shyheim, Jus Allah, Celph Titled, Atmosphere, Necro......

[David Daniel Davis]

Putting older rappers on their songs is not going to do too much to boost their careers. Young niggahz today do not care about the legends..

[Sam the Seed]

Honestly, yeah. The first few generations were honored and even became rappers to work with their heroes. Now the guest features are to grow their brand and not to show and prove their skills with legends. And I think some of it is because mainstream rap fans are just pop fans. If they heard J. Cole on a track with Canibus, it would make them realize their idea of good hip-hop is trash and thats bad for the music business economically. There's a reason these corny "positive"/"smart" rappers like J Cole don't work with actual conscious rappers and try to sound like gangsta rap. Drake made a career off that. He'll name a song Wu Tang Forever or dress up like Cam'ron but he won't give a big radio platform to anyone who exposes he's wack to teenage girls and hoodrats.

[ShaDynasty]

Honestly, yeah. The first few generations were honored and even became rappers to work with their heroes. Now the guest features are to grow their brand and not to show and prove their skills with legends. And I think some of it is because mainstream rap fans are just pop fans. If they heard J. Cole on a track with Canibus, it would make them realize their idea of good hip-hop is trash and thats bad for the music business economically. There's a reason these corny "positive"/"smart" rappers like J Cole don't work with actual conscious rappers and try to sound like gangsta rap. Drake made a career off that. He'll name a song Wu Tang Forever or dress up like Cam'ron but he won't give a big radio platform to anyone who exposes he's wack to teenage girls and hoodrats.

I don't think much of this is true. Its just different generations of artists and fans. 80s rappers didn't collab much at all. 90s rappers collabed with other 90s rappers. 00s rappers collabed with 00s rappers and so on.

Canibus and Cole's music is not competing in the same space. Similarly I don't see verses from 54 year old hardcore Wu members sounding like a natural fit on Drake's smooth r&b tracks, which is obviously why they scrapped the remix of that song. They aren't using the same metrics to measure artistic success.

Paying homage is fine, but the new guys don't owe old rappers a big budget feature. And Canibus, Wu, Cam in their heyday didn't do it either. I think Wu had Force MDs do a hook, thats about it.

[Rev Jones]

Canibus sabotaged his own career by being a bitter fuck

good rapper, wouldn't want to have a convo with him though. he's always complaining

I know the J. Cole thing is old, but since it was brought up as an example I thought I'd give my take on Canibus

I'm not too familiar with J. Cole

newer rappers don't *have to* put any legend back on the map but if they did I'd want to listen to how their styles mesh

[Sam the Seed]

I don't think much of this is true. Its just different generations of artists and fans. 80s rappers didn't collab much at all. 90s rappers collabed with other 90s rappers. 00s rappers collabed with 00s rappers and so on.

Canibus and Cole's music is not competing in the same space. Similarly I don't see verses from 54 year old hardcore Wu members sounding like a natural fit on Drake's smooth r&b tracks, which is obviously why they scrapped the remix of that song. They aren't using the same metrics to measure artistic success.

Paying homage is fine, but the new guys don't owe old rappers a big budget feature. And Canibus, Wu, Cam in their heyday didn't do it either. I think Wu had Force MDs do a hook, thats about it.

C'mon. Rae worked with Slick Rick, countless young indie dudes work with Wu and others, Nas and Queens MCs remade "The Bridge" and put MC Shan on it, Jay Z put Rick and Biz Markie in "Girls Girls Girls", BIg L worked with Big Daddy Kane, Kendrick used MC Eiht, Chief Keef worked with Master P. I can list young rappers working with veterans for days. You can't see Drake on a song with Wu but the nigga has worked with Bun B and Juicy J?

Its 100% about wack dudes not wanting to work with non-wack dudes. Not that a Bun B or Juicy J are wack, but they're ignorant, less lyrical and make these lightskin niggas look good to white people and street niggas who think they're soft. Also those Southern guys have no real marquee value like a lot of NY or West Coast names.

Rappers today make way more money and there are way more legendary rappers before them that paved the way and inspired them. When rappers made less and things were more regional, they still worked with veterans more. No excuse why less work with veterans now besides fear of getting exposed. And btw they work with vets on their way up but don't return the favor when they make it.

[Sam the Seed]

Canibus sabotaged his own career by being a bitter fuck

good rapper, wouldn't want to have a convo with him though. he's always complaining

I know the J. Cole thing is old, but since it was brought up as an example I thought I'd give my take on Canibus

I'm not too familiar with J. Cole

newer rappers don't *have to* put any legend back on the map but if they did I'd want to listen to how their styles mesh

How did this man sabotage his own career? I have more respect for LL Cool J than 90% of rappers but what he did to Canibus was wack. Canibus capitalized on it nicely but its obvious he was blackballed for it. Then Eminem's corny ass made a come up on him because he was blackballed. Dude is an indie legend with a zillion projects who still works with the best at his level.

[ShaDynasty]

C'mon. Rae worked with Slick Rick, countless young indie dudes work with Wu and others, Nas and Queens MCs remade "The Bridge" and put MC Shan on it, Jay Z put Rick and Biz Markie in "Girls Girls Girls", BIg L worked with Big Daddy Kane, Kendrick used MC Eiht, Chief Keef worked with Master P. I can list young rappers working with veterans for days. You can't see Drake on a song with Wu but the nigga has worked with Bun B and Juicy J?

Its 100% about wack dudes not wanting to work with non-wack dudes. Not that a Bun B or Juicy J are wack, but they're ignorant, less lyrical and make these lightskin niggas look good to white people and street niggas who think they're soft. Also those Southern guys have no real marquee value like a lot of NY or West Coast names.

Rappers today make way more money and there are way more legendary rappers before them that paved the way and inspired them. When rappers made less and things were more regional, they still worked with veterans more. No excuse why less work with veterans now besides fear of getting exposed. And btw they work with vets on their way up but don't return the favor when they make it.

J Cole doesn't usually have a lot of rap features on his albums. He appeared on that posthumous Gang Starr track though.

Drake is a Pop rapper, you want too much from him. I enjoy some of his music, but it almost certainly would be a mistake to put some scaring the hoes 90s rapper on his album. And he has writers if he needs, hes not worried about Ghostface writing a better verse than him. Juicy and UGK made more sense. I think its more about finding things that fit.

I don't really want to hear rappers collab unless its organic. Drake & Jay-Z worked. Jay is hardly non lyrical.

[Goldenchild]

Stu Bangas, an underground producer, was trying to help out Dres of Black Sheep (I didn't know they were still a thing) and made a fire EP with him. Now he just released an album Chino XL, which is one of the best Chino albums, if not the best. There's just one problem: Nobody knows or cares who the fuck Stu Bangas is. We're not talking Eminem or Kendrick. So that Dres EP and Chino album will only be heard by underground fans.



Logic is trying to give RA the Rugged Man more clout by shouting his name on social media and posting videos, but they haven't linked up yet.

Necro made an entire album with Kool G Rap and spent thousands on it, clearing samples, artwork, taking G Rap to fancy Asian restaurants every day, mixing, mastering, etc...then later admitted that the album didn't make profit and canceled the sequel LOL




That being said, if a SUPER producer like Alchemist said, "Hey Chino, Cage, Ras Kass, Canibus, Jus allah, come and record an album with me," that might be a different story. But nobody's checking out Stu Bangas or Necro, as TALENTED as they are

[David Daniel Davis]

Cage and Canibus probably would not happen as Alchemist is Shady Records and Eminem does not rock with Cage or Canibus.

[Sam the Seed]

J Cole doesn't usually have a lot of rap features on his albums. He appeared on that posthumous Gang Starr track though.

Drake is a Pop rapper, you want too much from him. I enjoy some of his music, but it almost certainly would be a mistake to put some scaring the hoes 90s rapper on his album. And he has writers if he needs, hes not worried about Ghostface writing a better verse than him. Juicy and UGK made more sense. I think its more about finding things that fit.

I don't really want to hear rappers collab unless its organic. Drake & Jay-Z worked. Jay is hardly non lyrical.

The whole point of the thread is FAMOUS i.e. "pop" rappers putting on their older underground idols. I'm sorry but Bun B and Juicy J being more "pop" than Wu Tang is ridiculous. And they're the definition of "scaring the hoes", not fuckin Wu Tang or a Canibus type MC. I don't get the Jay Z point at all. The man is even more famous & pop - not underground in the slightest.

But you make a decent point about J Cole not using features. But the guy probably could do features for his idols who are not "on" anymore.

[ShaDynasty]

The whole point of the thread is FAMOUS i.e. "pop" rappers putting on their older underground idols. I'm sorry but Bun B and Juicy J being more "pop" than Wu Tang is ridiculous. And they're the definition of "scaring the hoes", not fuckin Wu Tang or a Canibus type MC. I don't get the Jay Z point at all. The man is even more famous & pop - not underground in the slightest.

But you make a decent point about J Cole not using features. But the guy probably could do features for his idols who are not "on" anymore.

What underground rappers do you think Drake idolizes? Its probably not a long list, and again it needs to be somebody that fits the mood. I'm guessing you haven't heard the phrase 'scaring the hoes' before because Wu & Canibus are exactly the type of shit that refers to. How many twenty-something females do you think listen to Wu? UGK can easily fit on trap beats.

J. Cole or whoever throwing an old rapper on a track out of obligation doesn't like a recipe for artistic success. Check out A$AP Rocky, Dave East, Joey Badass who've made a lot of collabs with old artists, but it fits their aesthetic.

I mention Jay-Z because you said Drake wouldn't want to get on a song with an older rapper because he'd get washed. Jay is obviously a better rapper than Drake and almost anybody else.

[Sam the Seed]

Drake is a rich Jewish kid from Canada who wanted to be an American rapper his entire life. You think he was listening to Cash Money and UGK before he was forced to go that lane? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKi7PThm0Cs He was a backpacker so I imagine he was into all the indie stuff that was big in the late 90s, early 00s. Especially since they toured Canada more.

Nah, you don't have some special street knowledge of a dated phrase like "scaring the hoes". The argument that women dislike Wu Tang and good looking Canibus is retarded, especially compared to BUN B and JUICY J whose entire fanbase was Southern drug dealers thru the 90s. Wu Tang shows are packed with women, kids and white boys lol.

Jay-Z has been trash as long as Drake has been on the charts. Its not a good example. Even in the 90s, Jay-Z wasn't some super lyrical spitter that diced other rappers on tracks.

All I'll say is Drake's gimmick is being the one guy in the room who isn't from the streets. So working with anyone who is less street or sounds smarter than him would kill his appeal to his fanbase. Same reason Eminem doesn't work with white rappers.

[Goldenchild]

I forgot Westside Gunn put Slick Rick on two joints and I was surprised when I heard it. He sounded good too.

Eminem has always been weird about white rappers. Necro gave him a beat and he liked it but when Necro suggested he be on the song, Eminem gave him back the beat. Dope beat too, “Black Helicopters” by Non Phixion

[ShaDynasty]

Drake is a rich Jewish kid from Canada who wanted to be an American rapper his entire life. You think he was listening to Cash Money and UGK before he was forced to go that lane? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKi7PThm0Cs He was a backpacker so I imagine he was into all the indie stuff that was big in the late 90s, early 00s. Especially since they toured Canada more.

Nah, you don't have some special street knowledge of a dated phrase like "scaring the hoes". The argument that women dislike Wu Tang and good looking Canibus is retarded, especially compared to BUN B and JUICY J whose entire fanbase was Southern drug dealers thru the 90s. Wu Tang shows are packed with women, kids and white boys lol.

Jay-Z has been trash as long as Drake has been on the charts. Its not a good example. Even in the 90s, Jay-Z wasn't some super lyrical spitter that diced other rappers on tracks.

All I'll say is Drake's gimmick is being the one guy in the room who isn't from the streets. So working with anyone who is less street or sounds smarter than him would kill his appeal to his fanbase. Same reason Eminem doesn't work with white rappers.

You're just arguing for the sake of it. Teenagers and females in their 20s (before they get knocked up) move the needle when it comes to popular music. Wu-Tang concerts are 90% men in their 30s and 40s - packed with women is a god damn lie, and certainly not as many under 30 as old and washed. UGK aren't popular like that either, but they fit the tone better than Wu. Drake aligned with the south early on.

Drake's fanbase categorically does not give a shit if somebody is more lyrical than him. Again, hes a pop icon, not a top tier MC in the traditional sense. Half of his songs are him singing. That Wu collab is probably not gonna happen so get over it. I mean I'm almost certain it would sound like shit.