Sunz Of Man - Behold [Demo]

[Cilvaringz]

Now I understand. When it comes to money and family, I can't say anything, so you do what's best. As for the Sunz of Man, people on here are lying if they say there's a HUGE demand for the group. I like the group, especially Priest, but Wu corpers are just stroking your ego with that one.

I have no idea how much money a project like this would make for you. I just know Priest, Killa Sin and Shyheim are the most lyrical affiliates currently and most deserving of an album...but would it sell? No clue. Unless the Generals are also involved. I honestly thought money wasn't an issue for you, but now that you've explained it, I'll just say this is something you would want to do "for the love of art," because I doubt you'd make huge profits

Agreed

[Cilvaringz]

So Razah has dealt with a brain aneurysm as well as cancer in recent years. He’s lucky to be alive. Peace

Cancer too?

[Goldenchild]

I think there was a point in time when Razah had a big folder of vocals he'd done through the years that he shared with any producer that hit him up. That's why there's such a horde of albums from him with different producers, almost every week. But yes, it's all from the same folder. I got the same folder too.

People complaining about this are dumb. Canibus and Jus Allah gave producers a treasure trove of unused verses and they in turn turned it into musical gold, depending on the producer. MOST mainstream listeners have never heard these verses in any capacity, only underground nerds like myself. That's fine. Those producers gave those MCs more exposure via "recycled" verses. Literally nothing wrong with using the same (mostly unheard) verses but with different music.

Chino XL used an old Big Pun verse for his 2012 album and it worked because the beat was new and BANGING. But yes the few rap nerds who had heard the Pun verse before (probably on some mixtape) complained about it naturally.

Cilva, here's a question I forgot to ask. Now that you're fairly well-established, are you able to sign with a mainstream record label, say, Epic or Columbia? Or would you be forced to release your projects via Bandcamp, etc?

[josborne3680]

Yeah I wanna say about 2 years ago Razah posted on IG that he was getting cancer treatment. He posts a lot but I will see if I can track down. Peace

[Cilvaringz]

I'm really not that established, I haven't put out the volume. But even if I had, considering someone like Meth couldn't find a proper major home for The Saga Continues when it was his album, will tell you much about our possibilties, as artists levels lower. It's definitely the indi way forward. None of our numbers I think make sense for any major label out there right now.

On your second point though, I must agree with the geeks, I hate it when I hear a recycled verse. I'd rather have all new verses. Not that I haven't done it before, but I'm a purist in that way.

[hiphopjunky]

Chino XL used an old Big Pun verse for his 2012 album and it worked because the beat was new and BANGING. But yes the few rap nerds who had heard the Pun verse before (probably on some mixtape) complained about it naturally.

It doesn't hurt that it's one of Pun's illest verses too. But the Shaq Crack and Pun/Bigger They R track has been redone way too many times

[Lord Ganesh]

Yes, it's o.k. if a verse was reused maybe 2-3 times. We are talking like 30+ & the albums are being introduced as new releases. Also the track name that was originaly used when the verse first appeared has been changed. All of this is very misleading. Especialy for someone who has to spend his hard earned cash to complete a collection they have been working on since 93', the beginning. It's bad enough the compact disc format has diaappeared. Now with a digital copy what dud you really get. You have nothing physical, no artwork, no credits, producer, egineer, nothing. It's the same thing as gold & the manufactered worthless paper notes, the Rothchilds came up with in the basic principal of economics. P.S. this hear is someone who is far from stupid. So chill with that internet thug shit, for real it's not a good look & I don't deal in negativity, division or subtraction. peace

[Lord Ganesh]

By the way, I instagramed Razah & asked the very same question I had asked here. With no reply. I'm not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, here. His physical health has nothing to do with what is happening here. This is possibly a unhealthy move if anything. It is not strengthening the brand @ all. peace

[Goldenchild]

I think the Sunz of Man and other affiliates have little chance of making serious money, let alone getting mainstream attention. I thought Cilva could sign with a label of his choosing and get them some attention, but that’s apparently not the case. Now I think it’s just about recording a passion project for the sake of art and legacy (for the affiliates). But that requires time and money.

Cilva was on the verge of doing just that with Killa Sin before he got locked up. But I have to ask, what exactly was the goal for that project? I assumed Cilva was doing it as a “charity case” for Sin, giving him some shine, knowing he wouldn’t make much profit. Again, what was the goal for that project?

[Lord Ganesh]

Where are all these costs coming from. The artist, the producer, the egineer? I not sure if publishing is expensive or not. I know there are many companies out there, ex. cdbaby which got absorbed by Amazon, can print up like 50 cd's for like $300-400 with options like cardboard or sleeve inserts, etc... So once all parties come to an agreement as to whose getting paid what, what is stopping them. It comes down to time & making that time, work ethics, etc... The perfect example of this is Dom Pachino. You think he poors a ton of money in for no return. No, he puts in very little revenue for a large return. It's a business! Every business though has exactly what their customers want. It has been far past due as far as you Ringz. Never got a Linz Brothers or a sophomore album. I'm just saying. peace

[CL2coming]

On your second point though, I must agree with the geeks, I hate it when I hear a recycled verse. I'd rather have all new verses. Not that I haven't done it before, but I'm a purist in that way.

Same here. Can't stand recycled verses - it just highlights the fact that the track/album has been spliced together, which affects my enjoyment. Wish it didn't because it's pretty naive of me to think all projects are crafted in the studio with everyone together in the room. I know that's not realistic these days and that most people are just hitting up M-Eighty for features... ugh. Oh well.

Also, as far as I am aware, Razah has only released one project of new verses since his health problems - search for "Heaven Razah - Recovery" on streaming platforms. It's kinda hard to listen to though. He can just about get the words out, but the flow is gone. I hope he heals up - in his prime he was one of the best.

[Cilvaringz]

Where are all these costs coming from. The artist, the producer, the egineer? I not sure if publishing is expensive or not. I know there are many companies out there, ex. cdbaby which got absorbed by Amazon, can print up like 50 cd's for like $300-400 with options like cardboard or sleeve inserts, etc... So once all parties come to an agreement as to whose getting paid what, what is stopping them. It comes down to time & making that time, work ethics, etc... The perfect example of this is Dom Pachino. You think he poors a ton of money in for no return. No, he puts in very little revenue for a large return. It's a business! Every business though has exactly what their customers want. It has been far past due as far as you Ringz. Never got a Linz Brothers or a sophomore album. I'm just saying. peace

I'm a bit excessive after the OUATIS first class approach to mixing when I had Kanye's engineer do the whole album. Can't stand home mixes anymore. So that's a cost. I took good time with designs and making sure they're right, so that's a cost. It's always full package for me. I'd rather have you pay more and get something that's worth it, rather than pushing it out cheap. That said, I'd love to know what PR's returns are. Think he'd tell me? lol them Bugsy albums are dope though. Not sure anyone is waiting for Lin Bros sophomore. That's funny.

[Cilvaringz]

I think the Sunz of Man and other affiliates have little chance of making serious money, let alone getting mainstream attention. I thought Cilva could sign with a label of his choosing and get them some attention, but that’s apparently not the case. Now I think it’s just about recording a passion project for the sake of art and legacy (for the affiliates). But that requires time and money.

Cilva was on the verge of doing just that with Killa Sin before he got locked up. But I have to ask, what exactly was the goal for that project? I assumed Cilva was doing it as a “charity case” for Sin, giving him some shine, knowing he wouldn’t make much profit. Again, what was the goal for that project?

With Sin i felt there was actually a viable market that we could tap into, and I wasn't the only one. I know E1 definitely wanted to do an album with him. Would've been a dream project too. He was 'rusty' coming out of jail to do OUATIS and he still murdered everyone on every track, like... easy.

[Goldenchild]

Ironically the Shaolin album could be the best legacy/material Killa Sin leaves behind as an artist—that is, if his verses are truly that exceptional AND he never gets paroled. It’s a bittersweet end for an overlooked MC. Too bad he didn’t give Cilva verses before going to prison.

Canibus gave Stoupe the Enemy of Mankind verses before joining the Army and in turn Stoupe produced his best album, Rip the Jacker. Canibus admitted to going to Best Buy to buy the CD and that was the first time he actually heard the album and it made him cry. Make fun of him all you want but that album is his legacy and he had NO input. Fortunately, Stoupe is a monster beat maker who was in his prime in 2003, so Canibus got lucky

[Jet Set]

From what I heard, Sin really slaughtered everybody.