Have we ever considered the fact that maybe.......

[Jet Set]

//and Rae & Dirt's 2nd & U-God's debut are very light on in-house production & Blackout only got 1/4th Wu production. Also, the other half of BTS is Arabian Knight/Q-Base & John the Baptist who, while Wu adjacent, weren't Wu-Elements and BTS & SC have no True or 4th who are giving Sunz, KP, Killarmy, La & pre-10th member Cappa albums of great beats at the same time. So, again, I don't buy "fell off" as the reason when the generals were sleeping on heat back then. That's not saying they're on the same level now (who is?) but it's more likely they're not even checking for what they have b/c there's no more house to be in house for.//

U-God's debut was supposed to be done with True. Still, he managed to get 7 Wu productions on there, and 2 John the Baptist. Out of 14, that is at least half.


//The Clan walked from their Wu-Tang Productions contracts so using Wu-Elements production was no longer in house. Meth said something about True taking shoes during T2 sessions and hasn't worked with him since outside group albums/tracks plus he was locked up w/ those false charges for a minute. 4th stays mostly in Ohio so who knows what beats are getting to Clan members to check. Math is still actively the touring DJ for Wu and solo members (mostly Meth) and, no surprise, he gets the most beats placed in recent times because he's just around the Clan the most often. Etc...

It's a baseless assumption to think the reason they're not being utilized because of bad quality when the production of solo projects without the Elements has been so inconsistent, and much of what we've heard the Elements drop in recent years on stray projects fit in that same range of inconsistency so, getting some 4th, True and Math beats (whether they're good, meh or bad) would fit in with the music they're making anyway. Understand how quality isn't the issue in their utilization?//

LMAO, for real? True took some shoes during T2? You got a source for that, and it should be about time they talked and made amends again. Meth seems to be in that space of life right now.

Though form what you are saying, you could also state that projects without the elements are inconsistent. But these could also be inconsistent with the elements. Like one does not cancel out the other. What is most important in this case, might be the whole contract situation and everybody going their own way. Trying to have their own gang, like Rae tried with Immobilarity and American Cream Team and later Ice Water. He explicitly mentions this in his book.

[Hollow Dartz]

To Buddah_Mac: There was a reason I DIDN'T bring up Immobalarity, Nigga Please and Blackout. I already debunked your argument. You said their second albums sisn't have Wu elements and I just showed and proved. Now you're reaching for straws saying "The other half of..." It DOESN'T MATTER. They were still using the Wu-Elements back then. I don't think it has anything to do with a "Wu-Tang Productions" contract. If your beats are hot then they're HOT. How come producers like MADLIB and ALCHEMIST are still working with Various Artists til this day? DJ Muggs, DJ Premier, etc... I can go down a whole list of producers that are still getting hit up for beats. But not these guys. They fell off. Even Bronze at one point was giving out beats to other MC's outside the Wu-Camp. All these underground rappers grew up of Wu-Tang and you're telling me they never tried to get a 4th Disciple beat? There's a reason no one's hitting up RZA for a beat anymore...his beats are weak now. Ya'll in denial. Again, ya'll naming 4-5 projects over a 21 years span.

To Jet Set: Thank you! Golden Armz had almost half the tracks with Wu elements. Some of Ya'll got revisionist history in here. I know why, it will kill your argument. Because a lot of ya'll don't really like the second wave of albums even though it they had Wu elements on there. Also, I said the same thing about the Remedy album when it dropped, go look up the topic. Shit sounded like replica beats, and of course I got shitted on here.

[Jet Set]

So what is the actual discography we are looking at if we start at 01-01-2000? Or should we just take the last 20 years? 2003 - 2023, so that we leave those first 10 years for what they are. I think it would help the discussion if we set a clear boundary about the time frame we are talking about. 2003 is also an interesting point to start with 50 & Diplomats dropping.

edit: That was also the year we got Birth Of A Prince, and were teased with The Cure. Dope True Master beat, but that beat was an oldie but goldie from the Deadly Venoms track from 5 years earlier.

[Hollow Dartz]

I always start at 2003 because after "The Sting", it was over for Wu-Tang for me. 2003-2008 were really rough years for the Wu. They used little if any Wu-Elements. Like I said, I liked "Freedom of Speech", "School of the Blindman", "War Poetry", "The Saga Continues". But that's it.

[ForensikZ]

Hollow so what are you even saying

you dont like the 2003 albums, which lack any wu elements and is the start of their TRUE decline

but your blaming wu elements? They did the second albums, which werent as good, but i wouldnt say thats their fault. Supreme is just as good or better than the og stuff. Nigga please is also a classic imo as it aged like wine. Capps album is a 4 micer on a bad day. Tical 2000 was a good album as well. Those second albums , while not 5 mic every go round, were still 3.5/4/4.5 mic albums. Its the ones after that (sides ghost, killa aka the 2 who used the elements) that hurt the most.

i dont get your point. Wu stopped working with them after the second albums, the third albums you yourself say made you done with wu..

so why are we saying wu elements being weak was the reason, if wu went “wack” to you the years they werent using wu elements?

true master was never weak. Ever. He was making black rob afu ra and busta albums in the years wu wasnt using him.

4th def slipped a lil imo, but maybe it was rza cherry picking the best stuff all along. We dont know.

i dont need wu to use the elemnts, but i want wu ish beats. Cuban 2 proved to me it could be done without them. But cl 2 still had rza math and true master on it. Again those 3 are the only reason to check out pro tools by gza as well as they were the best songs on the album.

[Hollow Dartz]

I said they stopped using the Wu elements almost completely after 2002. I haven't blamed Wu elements for anything, don't know where you read that. Please read again. I liked the second round of projects myself. You can read any review I made on them in the album review section, I'm saying a lot of people here didn't like them as much. I never said anything made me done with Wu. You're literally saying stuff that I never said. You should read what I said again.

Why isn't anyone using their beats if these guys are still great? Wu-camp and outside of wu camp...

[Cilvaringz]

Truth be told, the reach out to the Elements was never really much from the Clan unless RZA pushed for it when he was overseeing the albums. Dudes wanted RZA beats, they wanted those disks from his magic box. I remember personally when 4th sent some beats to Meth and I was sure he would use that first one on that disk but it never happened. Then again, there's another thing yall should know. When the Elements send beats, which I know they did when I was around in the early 2000s, you'd sometimes hear shit and be like "really, that's the one you sent?"

I've been at 4th Chamber in Ohio a few times, spent days listening to that man's catalogue and there's some amazing stuff in there, more amazing than anything they came with later from other producers. But 4th doesn't make 10 Soldiers a day. True doesn't make 10 Fish a day. Like any other producer there's a bunch of meh stuff and the occassional blow your mind ones. And then you got to see if Meth or Deck could really lace a Wu-Renegades beat or if they'll fit much better with the affiliates.

So then 4th and True might put together a batch that in your head you would never select, and send them to the Clan. True and 4th and multiplatinu producers as well, so now there's a signficant enough fee to consider. True and 4th stuff don't knock in the clubs... some of these brothers wanna hit the clubs. Never forget what Deck said to me about the Magnificent Butchers off OUATIS: "I just came from the club son, these 16, 18 year olds ain't rocking with this graveyard music son."

That's a true quote.

Which, in conclusion means this... I believe, personally, that most of these brothers never really knew what sonic formula made them great. They'll probably know it and feel it once they hear it, but Priest and Darkman didn't hang around the Forever sessions just for nothing. There were, according to reports, plenty of times that beats played and brothers didn't feel them until Darkman or Priest rhymed on them and suddenly the potential came into sight, and they got thrown off.

Winter Warz, Supa Ninjaz, Cash Still Rules were all LA The Darkman songs.

What it really takes is a bunch of money, a bunch of old rhymebooks, and a bunch of old beats from the stash, one mansion outside the US and lets gooooo.

[Cilvaringz]

ps. The True shoe incident I heard about as well.

[ForensikZ]

bro.. lol


Hollow you JUST said in the post before mine that after the sting “it was over for wutang for me”. You got me looking at ya post like im crazg

but your assuming wu elements fell off at the same time cause they dont use em today. Rven tbo you agree wu fell off The time when they stopped using them.

so i dont understand

they didnt use them because they are signed to robert diggs. Wouodnt matter how hot the beat was or wasnt at that point. Its a money thing first and foremost imo.

Idk what your saying cause now your saying you didnt say that.

wu havent used wu elements in years except sparsley. You yourself said its been tough sincr 2003. So i dont understand your reluctance of having a wu element album today. The kost popular wu album since the old days is cuban 2 which has wu elements on it, and is completely based on their style of beats …

And i dont think using true masters sampleless beats on a rushjob album he did with priest is fair.

and what ringz says above makes sense to me as i do music myself. For every 10 songs you hear, are 50 you dont.

prople want wu beats cause thats what works. We been through the mon wu beat phase and the musically we all agree was drastically different and not as good.

that deck funeral beats shit dont suprise me. Same deck who said ghost dog was wack when that was rzas best produced album post forever.

i think ringz is dead on. They just dont know what made them hot. Deck wont take cilvaringz beats but will make 7 albums with 7l. A good producer but noone special. Cause of money.

i bet if ringz offered deck a check hed rhyme all aday on them.

i just want a few classics. If i got 1 an album id be happy at this point. I want a wu element album cause its been years and we got all types of other shit. Its time imo to come back to the source.

and wowzers at wu saying no to scary hours. Wow.

[Goldenchild]

Never forget what Deck said to me about the Magnificent Butchers off OUATIS: "I just came from the club son, these 16, 18 year olds ain't rocking with this graveyard music son."

What a disgrace. The Hulu series was right, the rappers have no idea what’s good for them. Deck caring about the kind of music Gen Z pussies listen to is pathetic

[rzatrax]

Think it def. comes down to who is choosing the beats for the project(s) . Rza still has dope beats and im sure can still make the same type beats from the early days. question is does he want to , does he need to , and is anyone asking him/ paying his fee for those type of beats. Other wu elements and close to the wu producers still making dope beats and probably have them in the stash too . But no doubt the paying for using other artists samples changed the game.

here are some older projects that production was dope by bronze , some wu elements on gza project , and supreme from sunz of man days .


67Mob - Raising the Bar - bronze nazareth

Supreme x Automatik Greatness - Rapoliticz

Supreme x Automatik Greatness - Exodus The Audio Revolution

Gza - ProTools - some wu elements

for honorable mention 2 projects from non wu producers but captured that dope wu sound.

Gza - Grandmasters

Joe Young - Invicible Armour

[Antonelli]

And yet the best Inspectah deck track post Uncontrolled Substance is A Lil Story. A « funeral » type beat produced by Cilvaringz. And judging by the youtube views, it's also one of his most popular tracks.

[josborne3680]

Deck’s solo career is disappointing. He falls into the Jadakiss category for me. Both have terrible ears for beats and never made a classic, but are obviously super dope MCs that kill it as a guest or in group setting. I’ve said it for years that at least Deck found CZARFACE. Have kept him relevant and energetic for most part. And 7L isn’t making “club” beats. Deck must have been under the influence when he said that or maybe he wanted to just be more relevant back then. Ringz, how long ago was that? Close to 20 years at this point? Peace

[Cilvaringz]

2013 i think

[josborne3680]

I was only off by 10 years, ha. Peace