The images in the first post of the thread come from Fairbairns Book of Crests and other books dealing with Heraldry, which were featured in reknown black scholar J.A. Rogers book "Nature Knows No Color Line". Instead of saying "this is all false" let's start with any evidence which you may have to refute that.
man i quit with you cause you just dont understand and dont want to believe the truth. you still dont get it do you. The original turks came from central asia, in the areas of western china and mongolia. They moved east and spread all over central asia, the seljuk turks built an empire from western china to anatolia. Once they blocked the eastern routes from the byzantine they stopped the byzantines from trading. When the mongolian empire of ghengis kahn started to grow they consumed the seljuk empire. split anatolia and the ottomans were formed. This is what im saying the turks dont come from anatolia, yes many turks who live in turkey may look caucasian or arabic. but orginal turks will most definetly have central asian descendency. Have you seen how people in uzbekistan Turkmenistan kazakhistan look. they have no separation from mongols.
Have you seen the size of the turkish empires calling us dwellers in the dark ages is foolish. The ottoman empire was bigger than the roman empire, the seljuk empire ruled the whole of central asia, anatolia and parts of the middle east. you really have no idea what your talking about, i am serious now you dont know nothing about the ottoman empire. it is considered to be one of the greatest empires to step foot on this earth. no one can disagree with that it stretched from vienna to iran, the whole of arabia, north africa and parts of russia.
the only caucasian white people the ottomans had in their armies were janniserries. The rest were all the nomad horsemen from central asia. the ottoman lifestyle had a closer relationship to arab lifestlye. but the seljuks lived a typical nomad lifestlye. both empires used nomadic tactics which they gained from them living in central asia.
what im saying with turks is that the original turks came from western china, and mongolia they were just like the yuan or han dynasty much smaller though. is this hard to understand??? many turks will have ancestors from these areas although they may not look mongol or chinese they do have a bloodline. i even remember japanese researchers detecting turkish bloodline to japan. some turks in turkey may even look chinese, for all the people who are familiar with football(soccer) a turkish player named ilhan mansiz became very famous in japan because he looked eastern. if you go to north turkey there are a lot of turks who have distinctive relationships to mongols or chinese people. I am not saying that turks arents mixed, turkey was ruled by romans and greeks for milleniums and am not doubting that there blood would have mixed in with turks. But turk the turk people are known to be descendents of the mongols or the chinese. nomadic people tend to mix with the population they conquer. but my point is that most turks will almost definetly have descendents from the east. some may show it some may not.
You have the same mentality that westerners have on turks. Just another bunch of muslim barbarians. The turks did not inherit their empire from the arabs and moors. please be serious your just now again trying to manipulate history by making it sound that other races are useless. get your facts right, what has made you hate turks as much as white people. turkish history is always written just like mongol history by the losers. As i had said before westerners hate turks becuase they conquered their lands and arabs also hate turks becuase they didnt like the fact that they were ruled by another race. the saudi arabians destroyed every mosque and palace built by the ottomans. why??? pure jealousy. the reason for such lust for hate against one race of people. it is difficult to understand a bunch of nomads can run in and conquer your lands and do soo much and last so long. The west and arabs just couldnt take it. you are doing the same as what you claim the whites did to the black people and thats destroying a races history. There are hardly any ottoman artifacts left in arabia because they were destroyed by the arabs. The fact that we know so much about ottoman history was that they power was too much to conceal. and that the turkic race which is so big doesnt hide it like the rest of the world.
as for me i have had enough of this arguement because trust i have done it a lot and am getting sik and tired of writing the same shit over and over again. So kephram peace to you. much respect. please dont be offended if i said anything to upset you or your peoples.
Assertion. It seems like somebody is attempting to escape the classification of being a Caucasian.man i quit with you cause you just dont understand and dont want to believe the truth. you still dont get it do you. The original turks came from central asia, in the areas of western china and mongolia.
Irregardless of where they built their empire it doesn't make them of the real authentic Mongol and Asian people.They moved east and spread all over central asia, the seljuk turks built an empire from western china to anatolia.
Assertion. Source, please.Once they blocked the eastern routes from the byzantine they stopped the byzantines from trading.
Again, a geographic location doesn't make you of the authentic Asian or Mongolian peoples, and I had already conceded that there was mixing between the two groups.When the mongolian empire of ghengis kahn started to grow they consumed the seljuk empire. split anatolia and the ottomans were formed. This is what im saying the turks dont come from anatolia, yes many turks who live in turkey may look caucasian or arabic. but orginal turks will most definetly have central asian descendency.
Again I have already conceded that caucasians more east do have in some cases visible admixture, you are making no new point here.Have you seen how people in uzbekistan Turkmenistan kazakhistan look. they have no separation from mongols.
Where were you before the Muslims and Byzantines even noticed you, please answer this.Have you seen the size of the turkish empires calling us dwellers in the dark ages is foolish.
The ottoman empire was bigger than the roman empire, the seljuk empire ruled the whole of central asia, anatolia and parts of the middle east. you really have no idea what your talking about, i am serious now you dont know nothing about the ottoman empire.
No one said that they didn't rule those areas, you have no point here.
See above. And without the Byzantines and Arabs setting up in and influencing those places there would'nt have been such an expansive empire for your romanticized Turks.it is considered to be one of the greatest empires to step foot on this earth. no one can disagree with that it stretched from vienna to iran, the whole of arabia, north africa and parts of russia.
The Ottomans were Caucasians (as are the modern people of Turkey) with some Mongol admixture, that is all.the only caucasian white people the ottomans had in their armies were janniserries.
Let's say a caucasian group migrated east and had a faction of themselves in that area (W. China and then moved west as the original Turks), that still would NOT make you Mongolians back THEN and it certainly does NOT make you descendents of the Chinese. (!)what im saying with turks is that the original turks came from western china, and mongolia they were just like the yuan or han dynasty much smaller though. is this hard to understand???
Having a so-called bloodline does NOT make you descendents of those people. There are many caucasians in North America that have Native and Black blood but they are neither descendents of these people or of West Africans.many turks will have ancestors from these areas although they may not look mongol or chinese they do have a bloodline.
So now you're Japanese as well?i even remember japanese researchers detecting turkish bloodline to japan. some turks in turkey may even look chinese,
Anything but Caucasian I take it??
See above. Johnny Depp may look Native American (because of a "bloodline") but they're not ready to make him a chief anytime soon.for all the people who are familiar with football(soccer) a turkish player named ilhan mansiz became very famous in japan because he looked eastern.
Having "relationships" doesn't qualify to make them Mongols or Chinese(!) either. Perhaps some of the offspring are that, but not the people of Turkey in general.if you go to north turkey there are a lot of turks who have distinctive relationships to mongols or chinese people.
And what makes you think you are not their descendents --and that it was simply a faction who migrated east to mix with Mongols? Rather then your assertions that you are descendents of some far off peoples such as the Chinese, and allegedly the Japanese. (!)I am not saying that turks arents mixed, turkey was ruled by romans and greeks for milleniums
The topic is controversial to say the least.and am not doubting that there blood would have mixed in with turks. But turk the turk people are known to be descendents of the mongols or the chinese.
While most historians believe that the actual migration of Turks was relatively small, genetic testing has revealed that as much as 30% of Turks have varying degrees of Central Asian ancestry.[22] However, there are also other researches showing that paternal gene flow from Central Asia could be as low as 9%, indicating the minor genetic influence of Turkic speakers on existing population of Anatolia.[23]
Turkish phenotypes and diversity
While the MAJORITY of Turks do bear a common brunette Mediterranean appearance similar to that of neighboring countries, there are large visible exceptions that are a testament to the legacy of population movements into the region. People walking in a Turkish street or watching a Turkish movie can see Turks of most physical types prevalent in the country, from the blond haired and-blue-eyed to Asiatic-looking individuals. Turkey, like so many other vast former imperialist powers such as the Romans and the British, in part reflects its imperial past.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people
Please provide empirical evidence that "most" are descendents of the Mongols and Chinese.nomadic people tend to mix with the population they conquer. but my point is that most turks will almost definetly have descendents from the east. some may show it some may not.
I said they "inherited" it on the BACKS of the Arabs and Moors (implying non compliance), so please, if you're going to quote me, try to quote the whole statement.The turks did not inherit their empire from the arabs and moors.
Are you really one to talk? Should I quote what you have said in regards to Arabs, Moors, and Turks in this thread?please be serious your just now again trying to manipulate history by making it sound that other races are useless.
No one mentioned anything about "hating" anything, please get YOUR facts straight and refrain from LYING to booster your point.get your facts right, what has made you hate turks as much as white people.
No, it's actually not difficult to understand. That's if one has knowledge that it was 'pretenders to the throne' that rose on the world scene (and the Devil) -- hence Renasaince (the Rebirth of) Europe, the Western oppressor (to Blacks, Native Americans, and Asians), and the Turks all gaining the ascendency at the same time, we can begin to understand WHY the world has experienced much degradation, atrocities, and lies concerning history.turkish history is always written just like mongol history by the losers. As i had said before westerners hate turks becuase they conquered their lands and arabs also hate turks becuase they didnt like the fact that they were ruled by another race. the saudi arabians destroyed every mosque and palace built by the ottomans. why??? pure jealousy. the reason for such lust for hate against one race of people. it is difficult to understand a bunch of nomads can run in and conquer your lands and do soo much and last so long.
See above.The west and arabs just couldnt take it. you are doing the same as what you claim the whites did to the black people and thats destroying a races history.
Boasting that you were on top when evil began to be multiplied by the rulers of this world (500 plus years ago) is nothing to glory in, IMHO.There are hardly any ottoman artifacts left in arabia because they were destroyed by the arabs. The fact that we know so much about ottoman history was that they power was too much to conceal. and that the turkic race which is so big doesnt hide it like the rest of the world.
No offense taken.as for me i have had enough of this arguement because trust i have done it a lot and am getting sik and tired of writing the same shit over and over again. So kephram peace to you. much respect. please dont be offended if i said anything to upset you or your peoples.
PEACE
are you familiar with timur, leader of the timurid empire. Tamerlane as some people call him, he invaded anatolia with his army of turkic-mongols. An army of turkic-mongols. This is what the timurid empire mainly consisted of. Also to prove that ottomans werent caucasian, look at pictures of fatih sultan mehmet (mehmet the conqueror) and suleyman the magnificent. They dont look caucasian. You see the ottomans are the only empire ever to have one blood line, its always been father son no one else has taken the throne. The golden horde which was the khanate of jochi, ghenghis kahns oldest son was recognized as a turkic horde. what i am saying and you not getting is that turks and mongols share a lot, just like tartars merkits and mongols. tartars and merkits didnt migrate west, the turks and mongols did. the turkish culture resembles eastern culture a lot the only impact if the arabs is the impact of islam and thats it. Anthing else is turkey is prodominetly eastern. what made the ottomans suprerior cavalry men in warfare?? our caucasian roots, i dont think so. janniseries were christian born caucasian brought up to be fanatical muslims. As the turks knew that they would make much better foot soldiers. If the turks were mainly caucasian in ottoman times why the need for this then. always remember that most of central asia are turkic peoples. the migration to the west was with the mongols and seljuks. and this was mainly soldiers that migrated. the turks controlled central asia before they invaded the west. you still cant call us dwellers in the dark ages, its the same as saying the chinese or indian were dwellers in the dark ages because they didnt come in contact with any of the western powers. the impact of the turks were clear as soon as they stepped there foot in western terrotories. a but like when the huns first appeared in europe, no one knew anthing about them and the europeans would make up stories saying that they were monsters, with 3 heads and 10 arms or something like that.
as with all turkic people turks in turkey do mainly have caucasian looks, but i wouldnt say they are totally caucasian. As for fact i know when the country was occupied in world war 1, when greeks, russians, italians, french, arabs, armenians and english occupied the country they had raped and spoiled the population. It is well known that turkish commanders ordered the killing of everyone that was raped by the invading forces, and all traces of these peoples being wiped out of existance in turkey. but after living in these lands for 900 years, it is inevitable that mixing has occured with turks who live in the west in the country. remember this that turks dont just consist of turks in turkey most turks live in central asia. i would call these people real turkish people as they still speak old turkish and write in old turkish. as tamerlane said that they are the main descendents of the seljuk turks. also to get a good understanding of the ottoman empire look up the seljuk turks. they are an empire who were still muslim but resembled central asians much more than mongols. the seljuks didnt allow mixing like the ottomans. when they conquered lands either they will allow the original population to live and place a seljuk governer. the main seljuk turks lived in the big cities. and didnt move into conquered cities.
the ottoman turks never opressed people in africa or arabia, only the wars with the shia safavid empire is were the turks went on killing spree's. the growth of the turkish empire was just one of provocation, when they settled in the west, the egyptians would attack turkish settlements more then often. This lead to the turkic-mongol armies to invade arabia. When they did that the byzantines attacked the turks, this again made the turks invade anatolia. when the crusades started, the turks and muslims were slaughtered by them. reason why the ottoman empire became an imperial empire, the turkish people grew up hating everyone around them, reason why they conquered arabia and eastern europe. The same scenario as with the mongol empire. the turks were only seen as a destructive empire by the west. but isnt every super power seen as destructive by their enemies.
i aint romanticizing turks, ok i may be a turk and may be a bit biased but as for a fact i am not the greatest fan of the turkish people who live in turkey because they are a very good representation of what the nation of gods and the earths say when they say the 85%. turks are blind they want to be western, i always say we have been fighting the westerners for years they never liked us why dont turkey align themselves closer with their blood brothers in asia. only a few who realise the truth behind turkish history knows. we arent greek, roman or arab. we are turks. its as simple as that we are from central asia, no one has credible source that we are direct descendance of any other far eastern civilzation. but because the turkic people resemble mongols and chinese more it is said that turkic ppl's are very close to them. think of it this way not every arab is the same, you get white arabs, black arabs, and brown skinned arabs. but they are all arabian. the same falls for turks, you get white turks, chinese turks, mongol turks, kazakh turks, russian turks, siberian turks. they are will have a link to each other. unlike arabs, turks spread out wider as the nomad lifstyle allowed for this to happen. a very good example of this and the first turk tribe was the gokturk empire. Gok or kok meaning roots in turkish thus meaning the 'roots of turks'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_...hinese_history
find tujue, this shows that the first turk people are the gokturks. and that they migrated to the west. this shows that the turks were an ethnic group in china.
think of it this way if they ottoman empire wasnt to be, but it was still the seljuk empire, i believe that there would be a very large decrease in the number of caucasian looking turkish people.
peace.
Im no scholar but..
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Originally Posted by Pat Bateman
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