Poker Discussion

[redemption]

Do you consider Poker a sport?
In some counties poker is a more popular spectator sport than the national sport, and it's only growing in popularity
Every week PokerStars has a 1million dollar prize pool tournament, and pokerroom has just announced a $5m tournament... I think thats the biggest online prize pool ever. Just shows how much money is floating around in the poker world, crazy.
peace


EDIT 31/10/2012:

woah I started this thread in '06 and now there are 48 pages?

It's funny because I did well from poker, but nowadays at least online the edge is much smaller. The effort required to be profitable at a decent level is so large that in most cases it's not worth it. There are better ways to make money than poker, so my advice as someone who played semi-professionally for eight years is just keep it casual. This is coming from a profitable poker player of small/mid stakes.

Advice to anyone reading who's considering online poker as a main source of income:

I'm assuming you live in a 1st world country. You really need to be crushing mid-stakes and be a proven winner for poker to (maybe) be worth pursuing. That is very fucking hard to achieve in 2012. The reason is that people forget about the things they are sacrificing when they get involved in this game. Even if you are a winning player 4-tabling 400nl at 5 ptbb/hr or whatever earning sick hourly rates in the $100s, it's still not good enough. The point is - do you have what it takes to move up? Poker is volatile - in 2008 legislation forced pros in the US to quit. The game is always changing. These are just two examples.

Your poker hourly rate isn't comparable to a true work hourly rate, this is important to understand.

This is a generalisation though - if you have no other options or are sure you have what it takes, then go for it. But for the overwhelming majority of people: do something else, play live, learn some skills etc - there is higher Ev elsewhere and easier money to be made, and life is better outside of the poker world.
Poker pros making far more money than midstakes regs have quit because of this fact. See: timex, shaun deeb.

Gl

[Luther Large]

Do you consider Poker a sport?
In some counties poker is a more popular spectator sport than the national sport, and it's only growing in popularity
Every week PokerStars has a 1million dollar prize pool tournament, and pokerroom has just announced a $5m tournament... I think thats the biggest online prize pool ever. Just shows how much money is floating around in the poker world, crazy.
peace

HELL NO!!!! how the fuck is poker a sport is bares no resembalance to any real sports at all


POKER IS A cardGAME NOT A SPORT!!!!!

[Right.]

Face

[King Justice]

HELL NO!!!! how the fuck is poker a sport is bares no resembalance to any real sports at all


POKER IS A cardGAME NOT A SPORT!!!!!

WE ARE NOW READY TO START THE WORLD SERIES OF DICE
With Ashy Larry, Grits and Gravy, Phyuck Yiu, Leonard Washington

[J-Cee]

Thatll be phat.Im backin Gritz and Gravy.But Phuck Yui will be a good challenger.

[brock]

Hello, this is the beautifulrock, 12 year veteran of the game of poker. I am well versed(I say versed because poker is a language or form of communication if you will....) in the nuances and logic behind the game of poker. I have read over 40 poker books including SuperSystem, Sklansky's The theory of poker, CARO'S book of tells, championship omaha by TJ Cloutier, and Harrington on Hold Em volumes I,II,and III. I know all the percentages and can help those with questions on how to improve their game and reach the highest level of poker knowledge...
Here is a list of games I can discuss with you.
LIMIT HOLD 'EM
POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM
NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM
LIMIT OMAHA HI
POT LIMIT OMAHA HIGH
LIMIT OMAHA HI/LO
POT LIMIT OMAHA HI/LO
NO LIMIT OMAHA HI/LO
SEVEN CARD STUD LIMIT
SEVEN CARD STUD POT LIMIT
SEVEN CARD STUD HI/LO LIMIT
RAZZ
PINEAPPLE
CRAZY PINEAPPLE
TRIPLE DRAW DEUCE TO SEVEN
HORSE (LIMIT- HOLD 'EM, OMAHA HI/LO, RAZZ, 7STUD, 8 OR BETTER STUD)
HA (POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM, POT LIMIT OMAHA)
HOSE (HORSE WITHOUT RAZZ)
5 CARD DRAW
5 CARD STUD
GUTS (2,3 OR 5 CARD)
OR ANY HOME GAMES YOU CAN THINK OF LIKE BASEBALL ETC....

I ALSO KNOW RARELY PLAYED GAMES LIKE SUPER HOLD EM AND SHANGHAI...

so if you have any questions or comments about the game i love, post them here.....

[brock]

1st things 1st. What is poker?

poker is a game in which 5 cards are dealt to make up a poker hand. The winner is determined by rank order of hands. While it is not necessary to wager or bet to play poker, i dont recommend it. (no fun) Sklansky sums up poker best. Poker is about making good decisions, and the chip tally is a result of such decisions. While you can have a bad day and every good decision goes badly, think of your poker career as infinate, meaning if you always try and make the right decision every time you play, over the long haul you WILL be a winning player. Math, patience, and poker intuition are the tools you use to make these decisions and if all are finely tuned, you WILL become a winner.

Rank order of poker hands from best to worst:

STRAIGHT FLUSH-5 suited cards in order...ex. 9H,8H,7H,6H,5H
the highest of these hands (AKQJT suited) is called a royal flush, the granddaddy of all hands, if you play enough you may see 4 or 5 in your lifetime.

FOUR OF A KIND-exactly what it says 4 like cards...ex. KH,KC,KS,KD,4S
also called quads
FULL HOUSE- 3 of a kind + 2 of a kind.....ex. AH,AD,AC,9S,9H
also called a boat
FLUSH- 5 like suited cards of no particular rank,flushes are ranked by the high card in the flush.....ex. AS,QS,7S,5S,2S....beats.... KH,JH,TH,9H,4H the highest flush possible is also called the NUT FLUSH
STRAIGHT- 5 cards running in rank with different suits...ex. 5H,6D,7S,8H,9D in a straight the ace may count as either high or low, but never both. either AKQJT(BROADWAY) OR A2345(THE WHEEL OR BICYCLE) NEVER, QKA23-the straight cannot go "around the corner"
3 OF A KIND- 3 cards in the same rank.... ex.8S,8H,8C,4D,2S also called TRIPS or a SET
2 PAIR- 2 pairs with an off card... ex. QS,QH,JD,JH,8D
1 PAIR- 1 matching rank in the hand.... ex. 7S,7H,KD,TS,3H
HIGH CARD- when you have nothing, hands are ranked by the highest card in the hand ex. AS,QD,9S,4H,2C beats KH,QH,TD,9C,2S

when both players have the same hand, hands are then decided by kicker or off card, ex.....HAND 1 AS,AH,QD,QS,9D.......HAND 2 AC,AD,QH,QC,7S
both players have 2 pair aces and queens but hand 1 has a "9 kicker" which beats hand 2's "7 kicker"

since poker is the best 5 cards, even in a seven card game like holdem or stud the 6th or 7th cards do not matter, many amateurs make the mistake of playing 3 pair which does not exist or play a "kicker" with their straight which is not possible. if both players have exactly the same straight or 5 card hand, the pot is split in half and both players win half the pot.

[baby jesus]

Alright I Got A Question For You I Play Tournment Style With Like 18 kids But There Is Unlimited Buy Ins Till Like 2 Hours In So People Tend To Play Loose And Call Alot Of Shit. So My Question Is How Do I Take Down A Pot If I'm Not Getting Any Cards To Play With?

[brock]

ahhh... great question...
how do you consider yourself as a player? are you better than your competition or worse? do you read hands well? how big is your bankroll? are you capable of rebuying more than once? do the blinds skyrocket after the rebuy period of stay relatively stable?

if you answer these questions i can help you redefine how you want to play.

for me, heres how i first approached rebuys, and how i now approach them.

my 1st rebuy tournament ever was at foxwoods. I figured the level of competition was obviously better so i took the tact of trying to push all in with my big hands preflop. this worked for me early as i doubled and broke several players early, but as the tourny went on i felt myself getting less and less premium hands and as a result i was blinded out mercilessly but still managed an 11th place finish despite playing incredibly tight for 3 hours after the rebuy period.

Now I play a completely different style. Although I still may choose to raise big with premium hands from time to time, I prefer to see as many cheep flops as possible, because i find myself concentrating less on what i have and more on what they have. Try to read your opponent, and constantly ask yourself questions like. why did he make that bet? why did he check? why did his posture change when that card fell? what has he done in the past? is he on a draw? why is he acting so weak/strong? many times the key to winning pots is based on a well timed bluff, many dont understand that in order to pull off a bluff the things you do must make sense. you cant just check/call the entire way and then throw a big bet in and expect it to work. the play must make sense. And Rule #1 when playing bad players is.....

DONT TRY TO BLUFF A PLAYER THAT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE MOVE.
most bad players either cannot get away from a decent hand or don't even care what you are playing they call irregardless..

anyway hit me back explaining in more detail your situation and i can help you further....

[baby jesus]

ahhh... great question...
how do you consider yourself as a player? are you better than your competition or worse? do you read hands well? how big is your bankroll? are you capable of rebuying more than once? do the blinds skyrocket after the rebuy period of stay relatively stable?

I'm Equal With My Competition. I Got Some People Pinned But Others I Dont Have A Clue Not Really Good Reader. I Try Not To Buy Back Sometimes If I Get Eliminated Early I Can't Help Myself But I Dont Like To. Yeah Once The Buy Backs Are Over The Blinds Start To Skyrocket. I Usually Play Conservativly I Dont Know If That Helps.

[brock]

a couple more questions for you...
are the tables closer to 9 handed or more like 5-6 handed?
how big of a chip stack do you start with and what is the limits of the 1st blind?
is the tournament early or late at night?
are they really kids? what ages?

[baby jesus]

9
600 dollars in chips
blinds start and 5 and 10
late at night shit goes till like 3 or 4
naaa 18-26 year olds

[brock]

ok ill map out a plan of attack for you, but right now family guy is on, so check back in a half hour ok ....

[baby jesus]

Cool, Also We Obviously Dont Play With 600 Dollars It's 20 Dollar Buy Ins But In Theory We Get 600 dollars In Chips Or You Can Say 6.00 Dollars So I Dont Know If That Helps Out Also.

[brock]

with the blinds at 5/10 and 600 in chips you have 60 big blinds to start, this is above average for a live tourny but below for an internet tourny. you have more than enough to play tight for a while, but you have to find a hand eventually. i suggest to start stick to this formula
n=number of players at the table

2/n= %of hands you should play per round

example if there are 10 players 2/10= 20% or two out of 10 hands
8 players 2/8 = 25% or 2.5 out of ten hands
4 players 2/4 = 50% of hands
3 players 2/3 = 67% of hands
heads up 2/2 = all hands meaning no hand isn't worth at least a call of the bb heads up

with this in mind, you must pick the proper starting hands, at the beginning start with these hands not in the blinds

ANY PAIR
ACE KING
ACE QUEEN
ACE JACK
ACE TEN SUITED ONLY
KING QUEEN
KING JACK SUITED ONLY
QUEEN JACK
JACK TEN SUITED ONLY


LATER ON AFTER THE BREAK IS WHEN YOU WANT TO OPEN UP YOUR GAME AS THOSE LEFT WILL UNDOUBTEDLY TIGHTEN UP A BIT.

ANY PAIR
ANY ACE
ANY SUITED KING OR QUEEN
ANY SUITED CONNECTOR
ANY HIGH NON-SUITED CONNECTOR

you are going to want to change up your game after the break, raising much more preflop, and trying to steal as much as possible. since the rebuy is over most will not want to go broke and tighten up. the ones you really want to go after are the ones with the most invested, so try to pay attention to who is rebuying a lot and who looks desperate for a win. those are the people you can take advantage of. always remember pushing is much better than calling heres 3 reasons why...

1. they have to call
2. they have to have the better hand
3. they have to win

all these things must be in line in order for them to win. otherwise the pot belongs to you. remember:
IN NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM CALLING IS A WEAK PLAY

in terms of your competition, try to lump them in one of these 4 catagories

1. loose aggressive- play many hands and raise constantly
2. loose conservative- see many flops but dont make many plays
3. tight aggressive- play very few hands but play them very fast
4. tight conservative- play few hands and play them slow

for you to be most successful against your competition before the break, you want to play like a 3 if you think your competition to be superior and a 4 if you think your competition to be inferior. after the break you want to switch between a 1 and a 3 to keep your opponents off balance, in the tourny you described, playing like a 2 at any time is probably a mistake. and when raising preflop your raise should be between 3-5 times the blind mostly, only going all in with hands such as JJ, QQ, TT, and AK, these are the hand you either want to steal with or get in a coinflip situation, also if called many times you will be a dominating favorite.

The biggest piece of advice i can give you regarding any tournament is this....
A TOURNAMENT IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY HANDS YOU PLAY IT MATTERS HOW LONG YOU LAST, SO DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY TIGHT.

dont hunt for hands they will come to you eventually just use patience