Poker Discussion

[brock]

think of hold 'em as a guessing game, always try to put your competition on two cards, some are impossible to read as they will play anything, or dont understand the game or what they are doing, but for the most part the bets people place are for a reason and logically deducing that reason is key to reading the game.

example. your opponent raises 3 times the blind and you call with a pair of 7s

the flop comes k52

your opponent checks to you.

why?

1. he has a hand like aq or aj and has missed the board.
2. he has a pair like yours and is afraid of the king
3 your opponent has hit a set and is trapping
4 your opponent was trying to steal preflop and has no hand at all.

well there is only 2 courses of action here.

1. check and gain no further information on the hand
2. bet and judge from his response where you are.

you place a bet half the size of the pot.

your opponent checkraises all in.

why?

1. your opponent believes you to be weak and is making a play
2. your opponent has a monster and has trapped you

most likely in this scenario is #2 you can postulate they have either ak,kk,55,22, or aa

you fold and your opponent shows a set of kings

why you bet? by not betting there, you risk hitting your set and going broke from an unfoldable hand.

REMEMBER:ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION ALWAYS GATHER INFORMATION

[brock]

Rollie If You Want More Info On How To Play The Blinds Regarding Pot Odds, Let Me Know And I'll Explain Further

[Prolifical ENG]

When do you think the best times are to slow play high pockets, AK and AQ suited? (if there is a time for you)

[brock]

well, many players like to use what i call an "amateur play" by limping in 1st position with aces or kings then checkraising once the play gets back to them. This is an incorrect play for 2 reasons.
1. more people can limp and your stuck in an unraised pot with multiple callers with no information.
2. The play is a dead giveaway.

personal example: I was in a 100k guaranteed online tournament close to the bubble.
1st position limped and i raised 6 times the blind(a huge raise) with queens. the blinds folded and 1st position checkraised me all in. I used up my entire time bank while considering the play.
why would he make the play?
1. he has aces kings or ace king and was trying to trap me
well in this case im either crushed or a 50-50 and i dont want to risk my entire tourny on a coin flip. or
2. he has qq, jj, tt and played the hand poorly, remember most would not play those hands that way, as those hands are easily beaten by a bad flop so most raise right away
3. he has nothing and saw my button raise as a steal attempt. keeping in mind that my raise was huge and not the same size as an average steal on the button.

I came to the conclusion that it was likely he had aces or kings. i folded and just to show off(if i was wrong i was a donkey) showed my queens and he reciprocated by showing his aces. one of a few times i have folded queens preflop, I was congratulated by the entire table, who then proceded to try and steal from me relentlessly. so you see I played it perfectly, but by showing my lay down was labled as supertight and a marked man(this is why you never show) but i still felt great about the play. Most likely folding there earned me 400 dollars as i eventually cashed.


As far as slowplaying hands like aces or kings, save it for the cash games, as individual hands are placed in more importance in the cash games. if you are worried about being deceptive, i would say make your raises as constant as possible, if I raise 4 times the blind every time i raise, nobody will put me on aces and it is possible to trap a reraise. remember if you raise in 1st position with those hands, you are likely to trap your opponent for all their money if you are reraised.

ak and aq - these are the most misplayed hands in all of holdem. people forget that aceking is nothing more that a pretty looking drawing hand. many many amateurs still find it impossible to get away from even when they are facing a raise and a reraise preflop or a flop in which they dont hit. dont fall into this trap. while it is a proper play to raise preflop with these hands, if you find it difficult to get away from,(especially early in a tourny) try playing them slower. this has a twofold effect.
1. It is easier to get away from
2. You are in better position to trap a weaker ace or king.

ace queen is a travesty. worst best hand in hold 'em. more people bust with ace queen in a tournament than any other hand. this is because people find it hard to get away from preflop. my rule of thumb is this..

IF FACED WITH A RAISE AND A RERAISE PREFLOP GET AWAY FROM ACE QUEEN. IT IS VERY VERY LIKELY YOU ARE BEAT OR DOMINATED.

[brock]

See my thoughts on why you should almost never play k9 tomorrow!

[brock]

So what did we learn today? some thoughtS to remember

1.DONT TRY TO BLUFF A PLAYER THAT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE MOVE.

2.IN NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM CALLING IS A WEAK PLAY

3.A TOURNAMENT IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY HANDS YOU PLAY IT MATTERS HOW LONG YOU LAST, SO DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY TIGHT.

4.ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION ALWAYS GATHER INFORMATION

5.IF FACED WITH A RAISE AND A RERAISE PREFLOP GET AWAY FROM ACE QUEEN. IT IS VERY VERY LIKELY YOU ARE BEAT OR DOMINATED.

and one last rule to remember...

6. NEVER LIE TO YOURSELF

[brock]

A BOOK OF REASONS WHY YOU SHOULD NOT PLAY KING 9


CHAPTER 1 BOTTOM 2 TRAPS YOU

This happened to me recently in an online tournament.

I was in the big blind with king 9 suited spades and the table(9 handed) folded around to the button, who made a standard raise about 3 1/2 times the big blind. Since I was getting about 2 to 1 odds on my money to call and people tend to try and steal on the button, I decided to call.
The flop came

AS KH 9H

Now I had done it. I had gone and flopped bottom two pair with an ace and a flush draw on board. Not wanting to let a draw or a bad ace draw cheaply, I made a pot sized bet, about 10% of my stack, and he came over the top for the minimum. This bet confused me. It showed a lot of strength because it didn't seem like he was trying to blow me off the hand. I guessed he probably had a hand like AQ or AJ of hearts and was on top pair, nut flush draw. So I flat called and decided to see the turn in case a heart, or another ace fell (counterfeiting my hand) and the turn came a 2 of spades giving me the nut flush draw in spades. At this point I concluded that I probably had the best hand and a nut flush draw as a back-up plan in case I didn't. I didnt want to risk seeing the river so I pushed all in.
My opponent pondered for a long time and begrudgingly called showing the A6 of hearts. He had top pair with a weak kicker and the nut flush draw in hearts.

I counted his outs: 6 of clubs, 6 of diamonds (the 6 of spades gives me the nut flush), 2 of diamonds, 2 of clubs, (these hands counterfeit my two pair giving him aces up)
ace of clubs, ace of diamonds(also counterfeitting my two pair giving him a set)
and his flush outs QH,JH,TH,8H,7H,5H,4H,3H,2H (DON'T COUNT THE 2H TWICE!)
so thats 15 OUTS X 2.25% = 34% not a good % to be facing with your entire stack on the line. 2 to 1 can be ugly friends and when the deuce of hearts showed up on the river I quite simply wanted to puke. I mean shit he beat twice with the same card!

this story isn't a direct attack on king 9, really, but is one scenario with the board A K 9 in which the "dawg" hand can get you in trouble. this story is more an outline of the dangers of bottom two pair, which I recommend playing fast and strong early to protect your hand. bottom 2 pair is a hand that can go to shit easily.

coming soon CHAPTER 2 MAYDAY! MAYDAY! KICKER TROUBLES!

[brock]

Here is how K9 suited stacks up against other frequently played hands
...................................K9............. ...tie
AKoffsuit=71%...............28%..............1%
KQoffsuit=66%...............28%..............5%
KJoffsuit=65%................28%..............7%
KToffsuit=63%...............27%.............10%
AQoffsuit=59%...............40%............<1%
AJoffsuit=60%...............40%.............<1%
AToffsuit=60%...............40%............<1%
A9offsuit=68%...............30%..............2%
AAnosuit=82%...............18%............<1%
KK.........=87%...............12%.............1%
QQnosuit=68%...............32%............<1%
JJnosuit..=68%...............32%............<1%
TTnosuit.=68%..............32%.............<1%
99..........=64%..............34%..............2%

These are 14 very frequently played hands in which you are a substantial underdog preflop. your best hope when playing K9 is to run up against a weaker king(not likely) or a hand with two unpaired undercards. in these cases you will be at least a 2 to 1 favorite, but there arent that many circumstances of this happening. If you are up against the hands QJ, QT, and JT then you are a 3 to 2 favorite. against an underpair 22-88 you are a virtual coinflip 50/50.

when adding it all up while k9 is above the average hand (Q7-the computer hand) It is far below the average PLAYABLE hand, making it a bad investment in a larger table

[Prolifical ENG]

" coming soon CHAPTER 2 MAYDAY! MAYDAY! KICKER TROUBLES!"

yeah when I was an amateur I lost most of my big pots that could have made me a winner at the end of the day if I folded because of that low kicker.

[brock]

CHAPTER 2 MAYDAY! MAYDAY! KICKER TROUBLES!

"Selecting the proper starting hand is as essential as playing the hand itself."-Lyle Berman

Starting with hands like K4, Q2 is a recipe for losing a lot of money. The following is a story that took place at Foxwoods Casino Poker Room during a 17 hour poker bender.

One of the things I pride myself on as a poker player is the ability to size up my opponents quickly, and use that information against them. The problem is sometimes you have to wait a long time to actually use the information.
I was sitting $1-$2 no-limit 11 hours in and $900 up and in walked one of the biggest fish I have ever seen. He started off by dumping $100 (the max buy-in) every four hands or so,for the next 3 hours, but I was card dead and none of it was coming my way. My table captaincy (chip lead) was in trouble as he proceeded to make the people around me rich, I was starting to get a little drowsy, and I knew I would probably be in for the long haul, so I took a small break to fresh up on food and caffeine. Twenty minutes or so later, with raspberry pastry still on the side of my mouth I trudged back to the table to find (in my horror) that the fish was now an overwhelming chip leader and the players at the table almost completely different. One player sitting next to me who survived the carnage described an unbelievable 20 minute run of luck in which players were cold-decked, counterfeited, river-ratted, backdoored, runner-runnered, and sucked out. One double-up turned to 2 and 2 turned to 4 and as I returned he sat proudly with a stack that dwarfed mine. Keep in mind it took me 14 hours to build my stack up to $1000 and he had doubled that number in just over a matter of 20 minutes. Just as I was sitting down, I watched as my fish friend was involved in a hand with a poor youngster who although experienced, was not ready for the likes of this guy who was willing to throw money at nothing at all. The youth raised in early postition to $22 dollars (11x the big blind, a huge raise) and all folded to the fish in the big blind who threw his four red $5 chips in quickly and with much disinterest. The flop came K74 and the fish tossed out 2 green $25 chips like they were nothing at all. Wanting to protect his hand the youth re-raised another $150 all-in which was insta-called by the fish. Neither turned over his hand as both wanted to wait for the river. A deuce fell on the turn and when a 9 popped on the river the fish proudly turned over his K9 for top 2 pair. The kid just slumped back in his chair picked up his cards and slammed pocket aces face up in the center of the table. "Fuckin donkeys!" he exclaimed and got up mumbling something about the worst players as he stomped out of the room. It was a truly Hellmuthesque performance. The fish meanwhile was shouting to the table "Don't mess with the dawg boys, my favorite hand will bite ya!" At just over $2200 he had reached his high point, and was soon due for a big fall. You see his problem is, he can't lay down anything, and consequently when you play everything, hitting anything at all makes the hand seem better than it is. The following are the 3 hands I played with him over the next 3 hours which ultimately led to his demise.
1. The slowplayed slick
When playing at a table you always want the tight players to your left and the loose players to your right. This guy was two seats to my right. He was in early position and raised to $10. This was a regular occurance and with a hand like ace king, rather than raise and possibly blow him off the hand, I decided to play it slow and milk him for more money. I smooth called and the flop came AJ7 giving me top pair top kicker. His continuation bet of $25 left his hand before the cards even flopped. It was this move that possibly saved him from me doubling up on him because I had no idea where he was. Instead of raising here I wanted to further induce bets so I flat called and waited for the turn. The turn came a Q for a board of AJ7Q and once again he fired $65 this time. It was at this point that I liked him for an ace as he took a second to ponder my call this time before putting in his bet. I figured I should test the waters at this point and I raised another $100 putting some pressure on him. He called quickly and looked to the board in anticipation for the river. When a jack fell on the river making the board AJ7QJ he proclaimed "great card for me" and proudly threw in another $200. While this card worried me slightly, his proclamation made it very easy to make a call because most people upon sucking out don't announce it to the world. He turned over his ace deuce, fully expecting a split pot, but when I turned over ace king he shrunk in his seat a little grumbling. "Wow you played that horribly." he stated. "Did I?" was my rebuttal.

chap2 to be continued soon........

[brock]

chap2 cont...

So after that $800 pot my stack was now up to about $1400 dollars and his was down below $1900. I believe he must have experienced a little shell shock from the hand as he seemingly tried to avoid playing hands against me for the next couple of hours, but eventually we locked horns again. I was in the big blind, and a player in early position made a standard sized raise to $7. The players folded around to the fish who looked down and made a huge raise to $45 dollars . The small blind folded and I looked down at ace queen suited. Now normally I would fold ace queen in this position when faced with a raise and a re raise, but from previously sizing up his play I guessed that he was on what as known as a squeeze play, so I smooth called and the original raiser folded. The flop came Q55. The player who folded, cursed and slammed his hand on the table and got up walking away mumbling. This is very poor etiquette as he basically told me and my opponent that he had either A5 or 55 and had folded a monster. I decided to check and see where my opponent was at, and he came out firing. He bet $300 into a $100 pot, a huge overraise. So I asked myself, did he really pick up aces or kings? Is he trying to bluff me? I figured if he really had aces or kings he wouldn't be trying to blow me off the hand so I checkraised all in for another $1000 dollars. He called quickly and I slumped over in my chair expecting to be beaten. But when he turned over Q7 off my mood changed dramatically. Blanks on the turn and river came and my kicker held up. I dragged a $2700 pot and was ready to get up and walk away but my trout goaded me into staying. He had just over $500 dollars left and judging by the way he was playing I was sure he was ready to give the rest away. So with no real danger to my overwhelming chip stack, and a new rush of adrenaline due to the pot I just dragged, I sat back down and waited patiently for my chance to put him out of his misery. Surprisingly losing that pot seemed to have no effect on him and he started going on an aggressive run again, dragging many pots with terrible starting hands over the next hour. Then he made a huge mistake. With his stack back up to just over $1200 he raised in middle position to $15 (a standard raise for him) With a hand like KQ I normally would fold to such a bet, but because of my competition the call was easy. The rest of the table folded and the flop came Q98. This time he checked over to me, which was an odd play for him as he put in a continuation bet on almost every pot he played. I decided to test the waters and put in a bet of $20 dollars, just over half the size of the pot. He looked at me, glanced back down at his cards and smooth called. The turn came a kind making a board of Q98K. He quickly checked again and with top two pair I came out firing $75 dollars. He seemed to be pondering than put in a minimum raise making it $150, another $75 to me. It was at this point I was worried. This is the type of player that would play his big hands slow and fire huge at no hand at all and here he was making a weak raise like he wanted me to call. Did he slowplay JT? I had to find out. I reraised another $150 back to him and without hesitation he came over the top of me all-in for another $900 dollars more. I was now sure I had been slowplayed and I sat there contemplating. I was very close to folding and I'm sure he knew that because he started talking. Actually, he started barking and growling. Was he really doing what I think he was doing? Did he play the K9 and was he now telegraphing it? "Did that card really help you?" I asked. "Yup" he confidently stated, and I saw no lie in his words. "I don't believe you, I call." He jumped up and slammed K9 down on the table. "I told you that king helped me, donkey!" Instead of showing him my hand and give him the bad news immediately I decided to slow roll and show after the river fell. "We'll just see what the river brings." I stated. A king fell on 5th street and he proudly told the dealer "Send it!" "hang on a second, I have to check my cards again." I slowly looked down at my cards and said "Hey, it turns out that king helped me too." I turned over the nuts and what followed was one of the biggest tirades I have ever seen at a poker table. So big in fact that security had to be called to escort the gentleman out of the poker room. An elderly gentleman that I had been conversating with for hours simply said to me "you know, slow rolling like that is very bad etiquette son." I realized he was right and conceded "I know". "Buuuuut" he added "In that case I think you may have been justified." I smiled and racked up my $4000 in winnings and kindly bid the players at the table farewell and good luck. "see you around, kid" the gentleman said. "You know you will" I replied.

This story is not only an indictment of K9, but bad kickers in general as prolifical can attest. While occasionally you will hit an odd 2 pair that will confound and confuse your opponents, you risk losing a monster pot and jeopardizing your entire stack due to your kicker. These hands have a negative expectation and should be avoided.


coming soon the final chapter....The K9 nightmare scenario

[brock]

You may think this next story is a rare occurrence but I have seen it hundreds and hundreds of times during the course of my career.

I was playing with a typical group of friends who get together on regular occasions to play a .25/.50 cash game. the buy in is $20 and being a cash game unlimited rebuys of up to $40 are welcome all night long. Me and a friend of mine are the best players in the game and on this night we shuffled back and forth with the chip lead as the big stacks at the table. The night was winding down to 5am and only 4 of us were left. I had taken a slight chiplead of about $20 or so with my stack now towering at $320 dollars and his at $300. The two shortstacks had around $40 each and were not much of a threat to either of us. I could feel his impatience growing as the original standard raises of $2-$3 were now $5-$10 and were becoming more frequent. As the shortstacks folded around to us in the blinds he flat called in the sb .25 and I did something that ended up costing him all his chips. I checked ace king in the big blind keeping the pot small and disguising the strength of my hand. The flop came JT8 and he led right out big betting $5 (keep in mind the pot is only $1) and I called because with two overcards, a gutshot straight draw to the nuts, and tons of money I wanted to gamble and suck out to a huge pot. This plan came to fruition immediately when a queen came on the turn giving me the nuts. He checked and I decided to represent a queen so I put out what I like to call a bear trap. I put a suck in bet of $3.50 out and I think at that point he wanted to suck me in so he checkraised to $9. (a very smart amount mind you, this bet will induce a 9 to re-raise and a Q,2 pair, or a set to call) Now I hatched part 2 of my trap. At this point I could re-raise him, but he is way to smart for that and would be scared a little of the third raise as this is a sign of extreme strength. So I once again disguised the strength of my hand my flat calling once again. My dream card popped on the river. A 9 counterfeitted the board and made a queen high straight. This meant with no suits present his king high straight could only be beaten by one hand and he could easily disguise the strength of his hand by putting a huge steal bet into pot knowing that a counterfeited hand would probably have to call to try and get his money back. He put a really smart bet of $50 into a pot of $29 and I raised all in immediately and strong making it appear like I was bluffing. He instantly called and turned over his king 9 expecting to see a hand like KQ or maybe even a counterfeited hand but instead I turned over Ace king. He was devastated but commented on how well I played it calling on the flop and the turn and the strong all-in play on the river. You see he just couldn't put me on the hand and never did, not even after it was too late. My friends this is the dream cash game scenario. You buy-in once for $20 and finish the night breaking a big stack and walking away with just over $600. While it wasnt my friends fault he played K9 (anyone would in his position on the small blind and he played it perfectly the entire way, he just got incredibly unlucky) these hands are known as 3-gap connectors and face the possibility of being destroyed by the high end straight. The higher the three gap connector the worse the danger, I have outlined the order of danger below.

most dangerous
K9
A5
Q8
J7
T6
95
84
73
62
least dangerous

62 can actually be a big hand especially since people like to play any ace and I have destroyed a wheel with my six high straight before... I'll explain more on this later...

So in conclusion folks, avoid K9 like the plague. It has a negative expectation and can really put a hurtin' on your stack.


"King nine is the biggest donkey hand, ever." - Mike "the mouth" Matuzow

[brock]

Wednesday's Omaha Lesson

An introduction:
Omaha is a variant of texas hold 'em in which players are dealt a total of 4 cards to start and MUST use 3 from the board and 2 from their hand. The #1 cause for confusion and error in the game is that people misread or misplay their hand and/or the board. Beginning players should be constantly reminding themselves 2 from the hand 3, from the board. I will outline the more confusing hands and boards.

The not so nut flush

hand AS AH 3C 4D

BOARD KS QS 9S 7S 5D

although you have the ace of spades, without another spade to back-up your ace you do not have a flush, remember you must have 2 suited cards to make a flush

I thought i had the straight?

HAND AD JH TC 9C

BOARD KS QH 8H 7S 5D

although you have 8 running cards, you can only use 2 which cannot make a straight

not quads

ive seen this before a couple of times

your hand

AS TH 5D 3S

OPPONENTS HAND

AD 9H 8D 6C

BOARD

KC KH KD KS 7H

although it may appear that both players have quads due to the board, you MUST use two cards and therefore three kings with an ace ten high wins over three kings with a ace nine high.

the two pair mess

two pair on board is probably the most confusing board in the game.

your hand

AH 9H 9D 8S

BOARD

AS AD QD QC 7C

because of the pair in your hand, its tempting to think that you have a full house but in reality you only have a set of aces with a queen nine. the only hands that make a boat with this board are AQ A7 Q7 and 77. AA and QQ make quads.

high trips on board

This seems like a scary board but in reality is one of the easier boards to read

AS KH KD KC 2D

many will play any ace and think they have a full house. Only a king, or pair in your hand will improve this board.

the full house board

the easiest of boards to read, barely any hand improves it

BOARD

QH QD QC JH JC

only a queen or pair will make a hand otherwise high cards are played.

While omaha can be a very confusing game, like anything you do practice and experience can alleviate that confusion. Remember to keep telling yourself use 2 cards from your hand and 3 from the board!

[Prolifical ENG]

when you have a flush draw, when and when should you not chase it?

edit: lol @ fully tilting

[LHX]

poker is played out