The 'We are Just Animals' Perspective

[My First Timbs]

Hearing and smell understood
sight touch and taste, not buying it
Insects have the exoskeleton, so not buying at least the touch aspect

well i dont know what else to tell u other than to do ur own research and read the literature

i have done extension research (field and lab) on insects, whether or not u accept the data is totally on u.

for one.. an exsoskeleton provides a great way to have a sense of touch!

[LHX]

is anybody going to acknowledge the fact that animals don't use written words and symbols as a matter of significance?

without acknowledging that, all discussion of evolution and fungi and eukaryotes, etc. really has no foundation.

i want to jump back into this discussion, but we have not established any real foundation

also - i have questions from post #53 that didnt get answered

[Robert]

is anybody going to acknowledge the fact that animals don't use written words and symbols as a matter of significance?

without acknowledging that, all discussion of evolution and fungi and eukaryotes, etc. really has no foundation.

i want to jump back into this discussion, but we have not established any real foundation

also - i have questions from post #53 that didnt get answered

All this indicates is higher intelligence, we are just highly intelligent animals, Written words and symbols are just products of this intelligence, not a factor that separates us from the entire animal kingdom

[My First Timbs]

This really depends on what you consider an animal, for me just because humans are highly intelligent does not mean we are not animals, and this intelligence includes searching for a higher power and questioning our existence

indeed

a search or acknowledgement of an alleged "higher power" is nothing special.. its merely the result of a suitable CNS system that allows conscious thought as well as abstract and symbolic thought... especially is a creature is social and lives at the whim of nature...

[june181972]

see thats the thing.. what do u mean when u say "not just animals"

humans are either animals or we are not.. u must take a stand or come up with some new classification system that somehow revamps biology to incorporate us as some special creature

I know you understand the difference between the scientific definition of Animal
And the laymen's definition of Animal

Scientifically: Yes

Laymen=Just Animals: NO

[My First Timbs]

no
we dont

it would be useful for this discussion to be able to have a definition of intelligence, but it is the nature of the beast that we run into that age old flaw - when something tries to define itself


yes - these bodies are capable of holding intelligence


clearly, not the same way


what if it has nothing to do wiff 'greatest'
but just different?

see this is the thing.. from ur post it seems that u are coming to a conclusion that humans are not animals (or basically a vastly different type of animal ) simply because we are different than other animals in the kingdom..

electric eels are vastly different from gorillas, yet they are both animals.

different animals can do different things depending on the evolutionary history.. the evolutionary path of higher primates led to development of what we define and call sentient intelligence.... this in no way means were are not animal or vastly incomparably different to all other animals.

we are mrerly different.. but not different enuff to not be animal.. in order to not be "animal" me must not possess all the trimmings and characteristics that define something as animal..

we have all the trimmings.

[My First Timbs]

I know you understand the difference between the scientific definition of Animal
And the laymen's definition of Animal

Scientifically: Yes

Laymen=Just Animals: NO

i know that completely,, but my whole goal and point is that the laymans definition brings with it a bunch of errors in reasoning!

those reasoning errors are then (in error) tried to be applied to scientific discussion and scientific concepts... that the problem.

the same thing occurs when discussing a definition of a "theory"

the laymans defininition and connotation is vastly different from the true meaning, yet it is from this error in reasoning from the laymans definition that many errors rear their ugly head when actually discussion scientific theories within a scientific construct.

to me the laymans defintiion of "animal" doesnt exists and ultimately has no meaning because it carries alot of erroneous baggage

[Robert]

Well i think we all agree that humans are animals

[june181972]

i know that completely,, but my whole goal and point is that the laymans definition brings with it a bunch of errors in reasoning!

those reasoning errors are then (in error) tried to be applied to scientific discussion and scientific concepts... that the problem.


to me the laymans defintiion of "animal" doesnt exists and ultimately has no meaning because it carries alot of erroneous baggage

SERIOUS QUESTION:

If I told you that you have the mental capacity of a monkey
Would you not be offended, feel disrepected, feel that your work as a scientist is being belittled?

This is my point, as simply as I can put it.

[My First Timbs]

SERIOUS QUESTION:

If I told you that you have the mental capacity of a monkey
Would you not be offended, feel disrepected, feel that your work as a scientist is being belittled?

This is my point, as simply as I can put it.

IN ALL HONESTY

it would not offend me in the slightest!

u know why? because i dont view myself as better than a monkey to begin with! i simply view myself as along a different evolutionary path than modern monkeys

that alone never implies betterness

just as i originally stated.. the problem lies with human ego

[Aqueous Moon]

Wow, this discussion is getting interesitng!
Why get hung up on "humans are animals", when we can use our greater intelligence to come to a more complete and rational conclusion that accounts for most importantly, human culture.

Biologically, humans do benefit from an animal classifacation simply because this allows us to understand our connection to the various life forms and atmospheres of the planet...which then allows us to understand the way our bodies react to external stimilus like the elements or disease or evolutionary change and adaption.

However, when culture is excluded from the equation we often don't get to properly examine and classify the biological components of human beings. This is because cause and effect get reduced to circular reasoning based on speculative foundations.

For example, culture is indicative of language. And in particular, opposable thumbs serve humans quite well in the ability to express themselves in written languages. This ability is crucial to human survival and quality of life. The cause and effect become need and fullfillment.

From a purley biological point of view, opposable thumbs can only be attributed to an adaption from a prior, less capable form of the opposable thumb. All the while still eluding cause and effect unto an endless tunnel of hypothesized posibilities.

The crown jewel of human nature is the ability to come to truths by the use of all faculties and forms of life in consensus. Metaphorical language, or allegroy is a good example of this. The 'humans are animals' thing....is quite frankly a primitive, patronizing, and inconclusive distraction.

[Aqueous Moon]

is anybody going to acknowledge the fact that animals don't use written words and symbols as a matter of significance?

without acknowledging that, all discussion of evolution and fungi and eukaryotes, etc. really has no foundation.

i want to jump back into this discussion, but we have not established any real foundation

also - i have questions from post #53 that didnt get answered

I agree 100%

[whitey]

We do everything animals do. Sleep, eat, shit, kill, fuck, run around. Then we do some other things that some animals don’t do which some people thinks really separates us; talk, write, sing, do math and science ect. Just because we can do those things it really makes us that much more above other animals?

Can we run 60 or 70 miles an hour like a cheetah? Can we pull a huge tree out of the ground like an elephant? Can we fly like a bird? Can we stay under water for more than a couple minutes without a breathing instrument like a fish? The list goes on. My point is these things are all special in their own way, we lucked out and got a brain as our specialty. By that fact of evolution we are put on some sort of pedestal?

[CherChezLaMarauder]

Wow, this discussion is getting interesitng!
Why get hung up on "humans are animals", when we can use our greater intelligence to come to a more complete and rational conclusion that accounts for most importantly, human culture.

Biologically, humans do benefit from an animal classifacation simply because this allows us to understand our connection to the various life forms and atmospheres of the planet...which then allows us to understand the way our bodies react to external stimilus like the elements or disease or evolutionary change and adaption.

However, when culture is excluded from the equation we often don't get to properly examine and classify the biological components of human beings. This is because cause and effect get reduced to circular reasoning based on speculative foundations.

For example, culture is indicative of language. And in particular, opposable thumbs serve humans quite well in the ability to express themselves in written languages. This ability is crucial to human survival and quality of life. The cause and effect become need and fullfillment.

From a purley biological point of view, opposable thumbs can only be attributed to an adaption from a prior, less capable form of the opposable thumb. All the while still eluding cause and effect unto an endless tunnel of hypothesized posibilities.

The crown jewel of human nature is the ability to come to truths by the use of all faculties and forms of life in consensus. Metaphorical language, or allegroy is a good example of this. The 'humans are animals' thing....is quite frankly a primitive, patronizing, and inconclusive distraction.

Our intellect has complicated and made survival more difficult to do. Our intellect pretty much made our way of surviving more polished and less barbaric

[LHX]

My point is these things are all special in their own way, we lucked out and got a brain as our specialty. By that fact of evolution we are put on some sort of pedestal?

what?

this aint vegas



i would agree with the claim that we have the bodies of animals

but this intelligence that is able to use words and symbols is some different shit altogether