suicide

[LHX]

i think the honorable suicides of the past were usually different then the modern "i cant take it anymore" type of suicides.

i dunno man

people who cant take it anymore literally cant take it anymore


nobody wants to kill themself, but some people feel they have to

from that angle, there is virtually no difference in motivation - just different from how it looks to the outsider

[Ultimate Fist]

Alex man - its good to discuss these things

purge it from the system

help develop some closure on the situation


theres a lot of people who will shoot their mouths off on the topic, but it is good to come face to face with these things that we have been trained not to discuss

Dont feel like you have to though. Sometimes its best to take a break and not talk about it if its uncomfortable. You can always say more later.

[Kong]

Alex man - its good to discuss these things

purge it from the system

help develop some closure on the situation


theres a lot of people who will shoot their mouths off on the topic, but it is good to come face to face with these things that we have been trained not to discuss

Thanks, I'm more calm now, I always think I have dealt with it enough to move on and be as free as I want then all of a sudden I'm in a bad place. Its crazy, I don't think I'll ever be free from it creeping up on me sometimes.

[LHX]

Dont feel like you have to though. Sometimes its best to take a break and not talk about it if its uncomfortable. You can always say more later.

true indeed

Thanks, I'm more calm now, I always think I have dealt with it enough to move on and be as free as I want then all of a sudden I'm in a bad place. Its crazy, I don't think I'll ever be free from it creeping up on me sometimes.

i hear that man

the lesson that i seem to be learning lately is that the only way that the situation can change is if you become the one that creeps up on it and/or faces it straight up

its a dark place, but until you resolve it, there is a good chance that it will never go away


especially in a society where you get taught to avoid it

taboo


thats why Hagakure hit me so hard when i first copped it

i had never come across such a brutally honest discussion about death before



when i go thru the most difficult circumstances, i still end up re-visiting that book

its like a reminder that there is always allies somewhere who also endure suffering

[maestro wooz]

i dunno man

people who cant take it anymore literally cant take it anymore


nobody wants to kill themself, but some people feel they have to

from that angle, there is virtually no difference in motivation - just different from how it looks to the outsider

true, but i think the difference lies in the details. Someone who can't take it anymore and a samurai who feels compelled to kill themself because of dishonor ultimately did the same thing, but there is a difference i'd say

To be honest my knowledge of "noble suicide" is basically limited to what i know of samurais and ancient east asian cultures, is there anything more then that?

I think suicide is definetley a taboo subject in our society. It's an awkward subject to bring up whether you were involved or just curious, as all death is. But i think it's for the best if we all learn to confront it and the best ways to approach the subject. So sorry if anything said makes you feel bad alex, but i think it's for the better in the long run.

[crass]

society's taboo in cultures that value progress and "life" in the religious sense. in america, we are both of these. heavily religious people are much less sympathetic to the idea of suicide, i've learned.

[LHX]

part of the reason it is taboo is because it is important for government to encourage people to live and be productive

one way of doing this is to make them scared to die


if you have people who are afraid of death and are afraid to disobey orders because of punishment, then you have the recipe for exploitation


if there was no fear of death, this current society would not be possible

people 'in control' would have no leverage over the masses



so in that sense - it is smart business

society's taboo in cultures that value progress and "life" in the religious sense. in america, we are both of these. heavily religious people are much less sympathetic to the idea of suicide, i've learned.

and we all know how effective of a governing tool religion is

[maestro wooz]

i don't know how much of that i would put on the man, people would have that same problem until we start getting into our dream worlds.

[LHX]

we have all these movies about perception

there is at least 3 or 4 of them that have been highlighted in this forum


you tell me if we would have that same problem if 'the man' wasnt there


eventually these type of discussions need to encompass the whole range of things that have been brought up


political discussions need to include that perception shit

it is all connected


the bottom line is - a lot of people end up feeling trapped in their experience on this planet, meanwhile we have reason to believe that it isnt necessary for it to be that way

why does it happen?


what the bleep do we know?
and why the bleep have we come to think we know what we think we know?

[Os3y3ris]

I dunno. Its a social thing and not a natural thing. Thats why muslims and various other societies can put out crazy motherfuckers that don't fear death. Fear is not our natural mindstate.

[Kong]

true, but i think the difference lies in the details. Someone who can't take it anymore and a samurai who feels compelled to kill themself because of dishonor ultimately did the same thing, but there is a difference i'd say

To be honest my knowledge of "noble suicide" is basically limited to what i know of samurais and ancient east asian cultures, is there anything more then that?

I think suicide is definetley a taboo subject in our society. It's an awkward subject to bring up whether you were involved or just curious, as all death is. But i think it's for the best if we all learn to confront it and the best ways to approach the subject. So sorry if anything said makes you feel bad alex, but i think it's for the better in the long run.

Nothing said has made me feel bad here its good to get other views on it.

When I think about the samurai way and "noble suicide" I think that they were brainwashed people, holding to much sacred and feeling so much dishonour for some little thing. Was it so different to any suicide? They feel bad about something they did or something that happened, seems along the same lines, they just already knew what is going to happen when they feel that shame in themselves, they kill them self. The reason why people seem to respect it today is because they got on with it so easily and never said a word, I don't see that as true honour though. A bit like the suicide bomber to.

I have to look into that Hagakure book soon, didn't they use quotes from it for the ghost dog movie?

[Frontal Lobotomy]

Suicide is a funny one, the way I look at it is that if you look at the suicide rates of most countries, it remains fairly consistent through the years.
The scandinavian countries have the largest suicide rates in the world, while Eire (Ireland) has a suicide rate of 0% last I looked, interesting that. I don't dispute that peoples have their reasons for doing it, but they just contribute to a consistent statistic in my opinion.

[Urban_Journalz]

I think the reasons for commiting suicide vary from person to person.

I don't know people who have done it. I do know people that I've stopped from doing so. In those cases, it was a situation where they were just tired of the garbage. I think we all get to that point at some time in our lives and it's a constant pain.

How would I do it?? I wouldn't. I not only think it's wrong, but it's a selfish act as well. There's always a reason to live, even if we can't see it. If there weren't, we'd already be dead without the help of our inability to cope.

[LHX]

Suicide is a funny one, the way I look at it is that if you look at the suicide rates of most countries, it remains fairly consistent through the years.
The scandinavian countries have the largest suicide rates in the world, while Eire (Ireland) has a suicide rate of 0% last I looked, interesting that. I don't dispute that peoples have their reasons for doing it, but they just contribute to a consistent statistic in my opinion.

suicide rates in china are mad high too

I think the reasons for commiting suicide vary from person to person.

I don't know people who have done it. I do know people that I've stopped from doing so. In those cases, it was a situation where they were just tired of the garbage. I think we all get to that point at some time in our lives and it's a constant pain.

How would I do it?? I wouldn't. I not only think it's wrong, but it's a selfish act as well. There's always a reason to live, even if we can't see it. If there weren't, we'd already be dead without the help of our inability to cope.

all acts are selfish at root - even when you act responsibly and considerately - you do it because it seems like the right thing to do


if i had any reason to believe that there was someplace better i could go, i would go there immediately - it has little to do with life and death

[Urban_Journalz]

It's how you get to that place that determines wether it was the right thing to do or not though.