5 %, and the Nation of Islam

[Cee Oh Vee]

First I just wanna say, I don't know much at all about either. So please don't kill me for my lack of knowledge.
I've just got a few questions..

Alright, I've got like 2 chapters to go in the Autobiography of Malcolm X, so I just wanna know, I've read in another thread that 5%ers aren't Muslims, or at least don't call themselves Muslims. Okay, but I thought (I'm not sure what to call it) 5% Nation (?) is a "branch" off the Nation of Islam, who do call themselves Muslims, and say they believe in Islam.

1. If the 5% is a "branch" off NOI, then why don't they call themselves Muslims, or say they believe in Islam?
2. Could someone PLEASE tell me (some of) the beliefs of 5%?

Thank you. Also, probably everything I think I know about the subject is wrong, so please forgive, and correct me.

[Cee Oh Vee]

Seems no one else knows either.

[MantiZ]

The idea of 5% is blasphemy. It's all I need to know...

[Rooty P]

The Nation of Islam (or the "NOI") has nothing to do with the Islam that originated in the Middle East from the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), it just uses a lot of the same arabic terminology. It is a black nationalist group that follow the teachings of Wallace Fard Muhammad and Elijah Muhammad. The 5% Nation is the Nation of the Gods and Earths, a spin off group of the Nation of Islam. These two groups, that believe in ideas such as "The original asiatic black man," and that "the black man is God," have absolutely NOTHING to do with Mainstream, Sunni, Shia, Sufi, etc. Islam. Don't get it twisted.

If you want to know the origins or views of these groups, I am sure the wikipedia summary offers a quick overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%25_Nation

Malcolm X was originally a member of the NOI, but left later in his life upon discovering the scandals within the organization, converted to "true islam," and performed a pilgrimage to Mecca. He then became Al Hajj Malik El Shabazz. From then on he shifted his beliefs to Allah, the creator and sustainer, as opposed to the physical black man on the planet.

[Cee Oh Vee]

The Nation of Islam (or the "NOI") has nothing to do with the Islam that originated in the Middle East from the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), it just uses a lot of the same arabic terminology. It is a black nationalist group that follow the teachings of Wallace Fard Muhammad and Elijah Muhammad. The 5% Nation is the Nation of the Gods and Earths, a spin off group of the Nation of Islam. These two groups, that believe in ideas such as "The original asiatic black man," and that "the black man is God," have absolutely NOTHING to do with Mainstream, Sunni, Shia, Sufi, etc. Islam. Don't get it twisted.

If you want to know the origins or views of these groups, I am sure the wikipedia summary offers a quick overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%25_Nation

Malcolm X was originally a member of the NOI, but left later in his life upon discovering the scandals within the organization, converted to "true islam," and performed a pilgrimage to Mecca. He then became Al Hajj Malik El Shabazz. From then on he shifted his beliefs to Allah, the creator and sustainer, as opposed to the physical black man on the planet.

I pretty much knew most of that, but thanks for helping me out man, ain't had many responses so far.

[Ultimate Fist]

First I just wanna say, I don't know much at all about either. So please don't kill me for my lack of knowledge.
I've just got a few questions..

Alright, I've got like 2 chapters to go in the Autobiography of Malcolm X, so I just wanna know, I've read in another thread that 5%ers aren't Muslims, or at least don't call themselves Muslims. Okay, but I thought (I'm not sure what to call it) 5% Nation (?) is a "branch" off the Nation of Islam, who do call themselves Muslims, and say they believe in Islam.

1. If the 5% is a "branch" off NOI, then why don't they call themselves Muslims, or say they believe in Islam?
2. Could someone PLEASE tell me (some of) the beliefs of 5%?

Thank you. Also, probably everything I think I know about the subject is wrong, so please forgive, and correct me.

1. OK, I'll try to explain this the best I can. Elijah Muhammad taught that any religion that said God was invisible was false because an invisible God can't be proven to exist. He said W.F. Muhammad (Fard) was God because he could be proven to exist and somehow convinced Elijah he was. At that point, they still called themselves Muslims because Elijah believed that Fard wrote the Koran in ancient times. After Fard disappeared, the Nation Of Islam continued to worship him. Clarence 13X taught this was a contradiction of principle because it couldn't be proven that Fard was still alive and therefore, just like an invisible God, he could not be proven to still exist. Since Fard could not be proven to be God, Clarence said the Black Man was God cause it was certain that black people existed and they were the earliest people on the planet and black is the earliest gene that all others are derivative of. They don't use the Koran or have one God, so they don't call themselves Muslims.

2. OK some of the basics as I know them. There's more to it than this though, I just don't have time to get into it and I'm not an expert or 5%er.

*No "Mystery God"- no invisible God, esentially atheism.
*Black Man is God- The black race is the earliest and the one most likely to remain the same over time (black is a dominant gene)
*Blacks are the fathers/mothers of civilization- by nature of being the oldest race
*White are devils because they were made to be evil by a group of scientists led by a leader named Yakub on the island of Patmos
* They hold that the teachings should not be read at "face value" or that the claims made in their lessons (depending on who you ask) may or may not have historically happened but that there are deep lessons within them that make them true.

So that's it. Don't expect the 5%ers to come out of the woodwork here; they kind of keep a low profile on this website. They have a large community on myspace; just search nation of gods and earths. Be very careful what you say to them though if you want info- they really don't trust or like outsiders bugging them.

[Cee Oh Vee]

Thank you. It's nice to know some people consider me as half "devil".

[DJMethods]

*White are devils because they were made to be evil by a group of scientists led by a leader named Yakub on the island of Patmos

Thanks for that, had one on here try and tell me that it was because I disturbed the righteous man (Black man).

This is a much more plausible reason, I was created by evil scientists.

[Black Man]

The Nation of Islam (or the "NOI") has nothing to do with the Islam that originated in the Middle East from the prophet Muhammad (pbuh),

This is in error.

The 5% Nation is the Nation of the Gods and Earths, a spin off group of the Nation of Islam.

This is wrong too.

These two groups, that believe in ideas such as "The original asiatic black man," and that "the black man is God," have absolutely NOTHING to do with Mainstream, Sunni, Shia, Sufi, etc. Islam. Don't get it twisted.

Another thing that is wrong. Sunni, Shia, Sufi...this is mainstream Islam???? When did Allah divide what he perfected?

If you want to know the origins or views of these groups, I am sure the wikipedia summary offers a quick overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%25_Nation

Wikipedia...c'mon now.

Malcolm X was originally a member of the NOI, but left later in his life upon discovering the scandals within the organization, converted to "true islam," and performed a pilgrimage to Mecca. He then became Al Hajj Malik El Shabazz.

As you can see by his name, he might have left the organization but he didn't leave the knowledge. And what is called "true islam" I must laugh at that, because which Islam is the true one that you speak of? Is the Shia, Sunni, Sufi, or the other umteenmillion sects of islam?

From then on he shifted his beliefs to Allah, the creator and sustainer, as opposed to the physical black man on the planet.

Another idea that's incorrect.

[Black Man]

In the words of Meth....to try is to fail.

1. OK, I'll try to explain this the best I can. Elijah Muhammad taught that any religion that said God was invisible was false because an invisible God can't be proven to exist.

Elijah didn't teach that.

He said W.F. Muhammad (Fard) was God because he could be proven to exist and somehow convinced Elijah he was.

This is incorrect. Fard didn't say anything to Elijah about who he was. Elijah went to him and told Fard who he was not the other way around. Fard didn't convince Elijah of anything.

At that point, they still called themselves Muslims because Elijah believed that Fard wrote the Koran in ancient times.

Wrong again...at that point (the time in the above) there wa nobody to be called muslims....and Elijah never taught nor believed that Fard wrote the Koran especially in ancient times for Elijah new his birthdate which was not ancient times.

Clarence 13X taught this was a contradiction of principle because it couldn't be proven that Fard was still alive and therefore, just like an invisible God, he could not be proven to still exist.

Wrong yet again. Allah didn't say anything about Fard being alive, him being an invisible God or any of what you said.

Since Fard could not be proven to be God, Clarence said the Black Man was God cause it was certain that black people existed and they were the earliest people on the planet and black is the earliest gene that all others are derivative of.

It was Elijah who said the Blackman was God.

it was certain that black people existed and they were the earliest people on the planet and black is the earliest gene that all others are derivative of. - that's horse puckey

They don't use the Koran or have one God, so they don't call themselves Muslims.

Wrong again. Really really really wrong.

2. OK some of the basics as I know them. There's more to it than this though, I just don't have time to get into it and I'm not an expert or 5%er.

An expert you are not, hell you don't even know the basics.

*No "Mystery God"- no invisible God, esentially atheism.

Errrr, wrong.

*Black Man is God- The black race is the earliest and the one most likely to remain the same over time (black is a dominant gene)

The Blackmanis God, everything else that's said incorrect.

*White are devils because they were made to be evil by a group of scientists led by a leader named Yakub on the island of Patmos

Wrong.

[Black Man]

Thank you. It's nice to know some people consider me as half "devil".

No such thing as half devil.

[DJMethods]

Wrong.

Can you tell me why I'm the Devil then? Cheers

[Ultimate Fist]

Black Man, who taught you? Some other gods on this site have told me they're not sure you're for real. Since what you're saying contradicts what I see a lot of the gods saying and unlike them you don't offer any actual proof you're part of the NGE, I got to wonder if you're really NGE or if you are just a prank. No dis.

[Ultimate Fist]

And if everything I said is wrong, why didn't you answer the damn question instead? Gods and earths and five percenters. Everyone else is wrong on their shit but they never say what's right. Answer the questions, if you're tired of brothers guessing.

[DJMethods]

And if everything I said is wrong, why didn't you answer the damn question instead? Gods and earths and five percenters. Everyone else is wrong on their shit but they never say what's right. Answer the questions, if you're tired of brothers guessing.

Thats because little of them know whats right. They get told to believe something by a cult leader, and they do so.

Very interested to hear why i'm a Devil, $50 says it's because of something which happened a very long time ago. Funny part about that - that answers why whoever that particular person was is the Devil, not me. Then, I'll be told "Because he's in your ancestory", just like every black paedophile is in this guys ancestory - Guess that makes him a paedophile.

Even if he says something that I have done - He still has no idea. He doesn't know me, yet he's willing to call me a Devil? I could be a black guy playing the Devils advocate (Excuse the pun) for all he knows, yet there is no problem calling me the Devil about things I have done in the past (Which he actually knows nothing about and is making assumptions).

The sad part about all this, they think it makes them "wise", like they have knowledge no one else does. It's pathetic.

Sorry to all the real Gods who know what the real deal is, but so far NONE have told me what it actually is. I don't want a long ass story quoted from the Koran, I want the real deal as to why ME, personally, am the fucking Devil.