Moses And The Wise Man

[Hellspawn]

You can always try, every idea worth the listening.

[LORD NOSE]

It's up to us to change this,

in order to change this, there has to be order - following that is discipline - then the cycle starts all over again - isn't this flow natural ?

"It's up to US to change this"

even if the devil try to fool us

we are the devil

me and you .. at times

the reckless devil is the one that its god doesn't have on a leash

when you submit to Allah you become a part of Allahs current and your will is Allahs will - Islam is that Discipline

we can treat each other as we want to be treated ourselves. It's not because it is that way that we have to take it as granted, like I said it's just up to us to change it.

Beliefs often get in the way of change

It is what we've been told in the Quran.
14. “And from those who said: ‘We are Christians,’ We took their Covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message which was sent to them. Therefore We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, and Allah will inform them of what they used to do.
15. O people of the Scripture! Now has Our messenger (Muhammad) come to you, explaining to you much of that which you used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much. Indeed, there has come to you a light from Allah and a plain Scripture." (Quran 5:14-15)
“Then woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say: ‘This is from God’, to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby.” (Quran 2:79)


+ alot of christians scholars admit there's too much contradictions in the book.

Dr. W Graham Scroggie of the Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, a prestigious Christian evangelical mission, says: “..Yes, the Bible is human, although some out of zeal which is not according to knowledge, have denied this. Those books have passed through the minds of men, are written in the language of men, were penned by the hands of men and bear in their style the characteristics of men….It is Human, Yet Divine,”


Another Christian scholar, Kenneth Cragg, the Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem, says:
“...Not so the New Testament...There is condensation and editing; there is choice reproduction and witness. The Gospels have come through the mind of the church behind the authors. They represent experience and history...”
“It is well known that the primitive Christian Gospel was initially transmitted by word of mouth and that this oral tradition resulted in variant reporting of word and deed. It is equally true that when the Christian record was committed to writing it continued to be the subject of verbal variation. Involuntary and intentional, at the hands of scribes and editors.”
“Yet, as a matter of fact, every book of the New Testament with the exception of the four great Epistles of St. Paul is at present more or less the subject of controversy, and interpolations are asserted even in these.”


Dr. Lobegott Friedrich Konstantin Von Tischendorf, one of the most adamant conservative Christian defenders of the Trinity was himself driven to admit that:
“[the New Testament had] in many passages undergone such serious modification of meaning as to leave us in painful uncertainty as to what the Apostles had actually written”









+ logically speakin, a book that's originally not agreed on a single version from it (The Gospel according to Saint Matthew,The Gospel according to Saint Luke,The Gospel according to Saint Mark,The Gospel according to Saint John...etc) been translated numerous times because the original language is now a dead language, there's a very small chance that we have it as it came. On the other side, the Quran came in arabic, a language that still used today (the exact same language) and there's only one copy of the book (I wish you can read arabic so you'll realise that there's only one quran in arabic, the english versionS are translations).

Again - these are your beliefs based on the Quaran - and that's ok
however if there is no way to say in english words what written in arabic, so be it - those of us who don't read it will never know the one and only True God

OK, let's not quote all the prophets' stories ; Adam (the garden of Eden, the tree, , the expell from paradise), Noah (the flood, the ark, the couples of animals etc...), Abraham (father of Ismael and Isaac), Joseph (the jealousy of their brothers then the most powerful man in Egypt and close to the Pharaoh), David (versus Goliath), Salomon (the Queen of Saba, her throne etc..), Moses (confrontation with the magicians of Pharaoh, splittin the sea, recievin the commandments), Jonas (the whale), Jesus (born without a father, spoke when a baby, reviving the dead, etc...). etc etc etc...

Let's tal about the precepts :

Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't commit adultery, help the poor, the orphan and the sick, modesty, justice, honesty, generosity, kindness to the parents, freedom, respect, truthworthiness etc... these are common to the three books/religions.

what causes your good intentions to be mistaken ?
why would WE even need those instructions ?


Finally let's talk about the attributes of god :
WITHOUT PARTNERS
'The Lord is One' (Deuteronomy 6:4) 'Say: He is God, the One ' (Quran 112:1)
SUPREME
'above all gods' (Psalm 135:5) 'Glorify the name of your Lord the Highest' (Quran 87:1)
ALL KNOWING
'His understanding is infinite' (Psm 147:5) '...and of all things He is the Knower' (Quran 2:29)
ETERNAL
'He who lives forever' (Isaiah 57:15) '...God, the Eternal ' (Quran 112:2)
HOLY
'He is holy' (Psalm 99:5) 'the Holy'(Quran 62:1)
RIGHTEOUS
'The Lord is righteous' (Psalm 11:7) '...the Right in Guidance' (Quran 11:87)
LOVING
'He loves righteousness' (Psalm 7:11) '..indeed full of mercy and love' (Quran 110)
WRATHFUL
'Your wrath .brings You praise' (Psalm 76:10) '...We shall exact due retribution' (Quran 32:22)
MERCIFUL
'merciful' (Psalm 145:8) 'In the Name of God, the Merciful ...' (Quran 1:1)
COMPASIONATE
'The Lord is..compassionate' (Psalm 111:4 ) 'In the Name of God, ..the Compassionate..' (Quran 1:1)
THE TRUTH
'God is not man, that He should lie' Num 23:19 "...God is the Truth..." (Quran 22:6)

beautiful titles

Peace to Merciful Black



my Lord My Lord My Majesty your greatness has shown down wrath against us woe is us

that's how great kings and rulers were addressed and better

the Beautiful stories in the Quaran should have one look at self


[QUOTE=Hellspawn;1866751]
+ alot of other stuff : Kosher and Halal, Shalom/Salaam, circumcision, don't eat pork, don't drink wine (see my topic on the subject), women and the veil (veil in islam = religious women workin in churchs).
The opening Surah of the Quran is very comparable to the traditional Jewish liturgy. Traditional Jewish blessings generally begin with:
Baruch Atta Adonai, Eloheynu Melech HaOlam
"Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the universe/world"
Surah 1:1 reads (in Hebrew):
Baruch L'Elohim, Ribon HaOlamim
"Blessing to Elohim, Master of the Worlds."

No it's more like in the future, they release RE 12.

look further, i'll meet you there

1+1=2, you're like trying to prove 1+1=3. Trying to hide the truth to yourself and diggin and diggin to make it seem more complex so it can suit your point of view

i've been pointing out that very same behavior for a while now - you cannot use that one on me - again - you have a belief - i also have beliefs, hopes,wishes,dreams, etc...some stronger than others and this is ok - you are showing me your view based on the quaran and traditional popular views of who and what this supreme being is - i have another view that i expressed that is not limited to how you view the quran

lol - when concerning Allah, you say we have to be able to read arabic to understand .......but yet you post quotes from the Quaran and tell me it's clear as day

when it's really simple : 1 god >>>>>> human beigns and simple mortals made from flesh and bones that possess a soul that have to return to this god one day.

this is what you believe

by who ? (that's exactely the type of answers you give yourself )

i probably do

do me a favor and point it out next time you see it happening

OK I better stop typing and go try to achieve great things, C ya later bro !

you are achieving great things right now - you are making history right now - there are better things you can do and worst things you can do and you'll have plenty of time to do both

Alot of them, we only know a few prophets, in Islam it is believen there was 124000 prophets.

every single one of them had opposition right ?



what do YOU see the words Seal of the Prophets Meaning ?


let's cut down the words to shorten post though and keep it simple

[Hellspawn]

Seal of the Prophets means the last of the prophets, no one is coming after. This is one of the characteristics of the prophet Muhammad as he's the last god's messenger (I was thinking about 'the circle is complete' then I realised in arabic Seal of the prophets is told "Khatem el anbiaa" and "khatem" means "last" but in the same time "ring", ring : circle, again).

[LORD NOSE]

there is a time when one is to come and open up those seals

[BTTR KNG KOOL]

But they did use those seals back then.

So isnt that where it REALLY comes from ?

Seal is not neccesarily something you "open".

...an Emblem.

for example, kings had their own seals.

Seal of Solomon, Star of David..

[diggy]

.

[Hellspawn]

The story of Moses and the Wise man has been narrated in the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad commented on it sayin (not the exact phrase) ; I hope Moses could have been more patient so we would learn more stuff from this wise man

[LORD NOSE]

throughout our life we'll play both of those roles over and over again

[Slippy The Pimp]

You can always try, every idea worth the listening.

Like cutting the skin off of a baby's penis?

[LORD NOSE]

up

[LORD NOSE]

“...I will bring the blind by a way that they know not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.” (Isaiah 42:16).








I’m continuing some with excerpts from what I wrote starting in April 1988 in a series of articles for the Final Call that became part of a book.





Let’s begin with: “The Honorable Elijah Muhammad summed up the wisdom out of which he taught and worked by saying (in one of his Theology of Time speeches) was “wisdom from the root of wisdom from the Creator [or Originator] of the universe.







“That’s the wisdom by which the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan is being guided and it’s this wisdom which far too many of us try to judge with our extremely limited understanding of this world’s limited and exhausted wisdom.”

***












“We met the Honorable Elijah Muhammad (or Minister Farrakhan) symbolically, at the juncture of the two rivers, as Moses met the wise man. I agree with the observation of the scholars, who see the place where Moses met the wise man, at the point where, what is called ‘human’ knowledge and wisdom ends and divine knowledge and wisdom begins, to put it briefly.









[Then I went into the Messiah’s use of the word “warped” with respect to the state of our minds, as made by our open enemies, when we met him and/or his student—Minister Farrakhan—and a commentary on the verse placed above this article, which emphasizes Allah’s unfathomable love for us—the most rejected and despised of all people.]

***












“The Honorable Elijah Muhammad has said that this time period is the first time God has desired to make Himself known in 66 trillion years. That is a million billions (or a billion millions) times sixty-six! We are lucky to be alive at the time of the ending of what God has decided to end; including the mysteries pertaining to Himself. We are lucky indeed!”

***











“However, as it was with Moses, who came upon events or situations, which his limited knowledge and experiences did not permit him to grasp, so it is with us. These events, situations and their consequences were produced by the God Who guided the one with whom he traveled. So it is with those (the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan) with whom we travel. The former was guided by God right to Himself. The latter is guided and backed by both.














“The student, who thought but did not know that which he saw in part, rejected the actions of the teacher, whose wisdom he did not know. So, the student recoiled indignantly even in horror—at some of the actions of his teacher. Finally, at the third event, he was thoroughly puzzled. That was the parting of the two. Did ‘Moses’ ever learn what his teacher knew?








“In none of the three instances given, in the passage that we are looking at, would Moses have acted as his teacher did. He indicated that he would have acted very differently. He didn’t have this teacher’s knowledge, nor his insight. He, therefore, would have handled those situations differently. And he would have obtained terrible results! Yet, remember, Moses started out by strongly telling his teacher (at the beginning of their relationship) that he would not disobey him in anything, regardless. The text shows us that Moses did not anticipate what lay ahead. He did not foresee that which was in the future. He did not see deep enough into the present, so he could not see well into the future.










“However, at the root of his problems, with his teacher, was shallow knowledge of his teacher, and the principles he was acting on, in these incidents. Moreover, he did not have enough faith. If he had seen deep enough, into his teacher, he would have had the faith to travel properly with his teacher. He suffered from insufficient faith in his teacher.











That was the key to properly follow his teacher: faith. The deeper one can see, into people, and into the events, situations and the circumstances that people produce, the further into the future, or into the consequences, or results (of actions and events people produce) one can foresee. The student, (Moses) did not trust his teacher as he thought he did and should have. The student thought he saw what his teacher did not see; or, he thought he saw better than his teacher. He didn’t.


















“Moses’ teacher, according to the testimony of Allah, was a very special man. Allah had also granted special knowledge, to this man, and an understanding deep enough that this special man was enabled to act with the wisdom of Allah Himself. In effect, the teacher of Moses, at that stage of his life, (the teacher’s) and at least in those circumstances, acted exactly as God wanted him to act. He acted for God. He acted as God would have acted. He acted as God in those circumstances. So rejection of him—at least in those instances in which Moses rejected him—was rejection of God. Such rejection produces blindness, or if we are already blind, we can’t gain sight, as long as we continue to reject that which produces sight.


















“The wise man was able to do as he did, because he was filled with God’s spirit. His student (Moses) did not see as his teacher did, so he did not see into what his teacher did. Where the teacher had insight, the student had short-sight. Therefore, when he saw his teacher do things he would not have done—due to his limited grasp of right and wrong—he condemned his teacher as evil.
















“Notice, Moses did not question his teacher for understanding from the spirit of really wanting to learn his teacher. He did not ask him anything. He raised no questions in the proper manner. And if he had, given his state of mind, it would not have been for wisdom, but for confirmation of what he (the student) already thought and felt, which was based on a short, narrow, and limited knowledge. Remember, Moses’ views were not rooted in the wisdom that was in the teacher, which he claimed that he sought from his teacher.











“Moses” only saw what he imagined to be the case with his teacher. In other words despite the fact that he desired to travel with and learn from his teacher, he was still predisposed to think, feel and act on the base of “wisdom” which he brought to this new relationship with his teacher. Who acted by wisdom far beyond the student. He still was leaning on that which he claimed was leaving, even as he traveled forward with his teacher to gain what he had. So, he charged his teacher with evil motives and with doing evil. He had a quick mouth borne of impatience, narrow thinking, tunnel vision, and shallowness of sight.”













***

“The more differently Moses thought the situations should have been handled, the more violent was his condemnation of his teacher. Again, the words of Moses, when he condemned his teacher, showed that he considered his views of good and evil as sufficient—at least in contrast to his teacher’s view. Could this be the reason that he did not really properly question his teacher for understanding?”























Now, let’s get deeper, next issue, Allah willing.










http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publ...Man_4182.shtml



Shhhhh !

[LORD NOSE]

Behold, Moses said to his attendant, “I will not give up until I reach the junction of the two seas or (until) I spend years and years in travel.” But when they reached the Junction, they forgot (about) their Fish, which took its course through the sea (straight) as in a tunnel. When they had passed on (some distance), Moses said to his attendant: “Bring us our early meal; truly we have suffered much fatigue at this (stage of) our journey.” He replied: “Sawest thou (what happened) when we betook ourselves to the rock? I did indeed forget (about) the Fish: none but Satan made me forget to tell (you) about it: it took its course through the sea in a marvelous way!” Moses said: “That was what we were seeking after:” So they went back on their footsteps, following (the path they had come). So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence.

Al-Qur’an, Sura 18:60-65 (Al-Kahf [The Cave])