"Beatmaking" in hip hop has stagnated and hit a brick wall

[TSA]

Hip Hop fans are too resistant to change.

They have such a limited interest in music.

im sorry but that's dumb, anyone that doesn't have a limited interest in music is faking it.

there's those fags that try to be all ecclectic and ramble about all the shit they like

then you ask them, yo, what kinda music you listen to and they say "everything"


anyone that give you that answer is
1. faking it.
2. has no personality.

[SL33]

i see ghostlace's point more, im concerned with just good material, but the impulse to do something like searching europe for samples isn't in hip hop anymore

though good material is still there, so i dont care.

they shop in Europe in order 2 avoid sample clearance issues.

what are the chances to get caught in sampling of some greek, swedish or serbian song?? pathetic. equal to none. not to mention asian or african artists in whose countries copyright laws are weak and highly uneffective.



+ this old-ass artists and their heirs and people who actually control their artistic legacy are getting very greedy.

[benzo]

Some of the best sample-based shit put out recently is that Beatnuts shit. THAT's how you put a track together and dudes have the musical ear for sure. Also, after bumping some old EPMD the other day I came to the realization that Dre bit their shit HARD. How did Dre "come out of nowhere" when he bit Eric Sermon and made albums almost exclusively by re-playing classic P-Funk joints?

[rainbow]

im sorry but that's dumb, anyone that doesn't have a limited interest in music is faking it.

there's those fags that try to be all ecclectic and ramble about all the shit they like

then you ask them, yo, what kinda music you listen to and they say "everything"


anyone that give you that answer is
1. faking it.
2. has no personality.

I'm sorry, but that ^ is fucking dumb.

Some people do listen to a wide variety of music, believe it or not.

People who only listen to 90's hip hop (and '90s style hip hop) will naturally dislike any hip hop beat which deviates from this model.

Because they are yet to appreciate other forms of music.

Remaking 90s shit isn't going to work, and sadly, innovating isn't going to work either.

Hip Hop fans (at least those represented on this website) want something new, but dislike anything other than the classic 90s sound.

You can't win.

Which is why there is no where to go in hip hop, apart from exploring alternative music, which will never be accepted by fans of the genre.

Look at everyone's response to Kanye's album.

I personally thought it wasn't great, and the genre which he was attempting to emulate has some far more accomplished exponents.

He truly did make something which is pretty much new (for the genre of Hip Hop)

However, a lot of Hip Hop fans dismissed it and labeled it as Pop.

Which pretty much sums up what i'm trying to say.

[rainbow]

Some of the best sample-based shit put out recently is that Beatnuts shit. THAT's how you put a track together and dudes have the musical ear for sure. Also, after bumping some old EPMD the other day I came to the realization that Dre bit their shit HARD. How did Dre "come out of nowhere" when he bit Eric Sermon and made albums almost exclusively by re-playing classic P-Funk joints?

Exactly.

It bugs me when people say shit like that about Dre.

He just put rappers over it.

[rainbow]

AGREED!

I think the crackdown on sampling and sample clearance issues are a HUGE part of the decline of hip-hop beats. How many dope beats have had to be "replayed" into some generic sounding wack shit or even worse have never seen the light of day?

Also, as someone else said. Alot of the people who make hip-hop now grew up listening to hip-hop so its pretty much a regurgitation of the old rhythms.

Yeah?

Why haven't other genres which rely heavily on samples such as Electro House and Dubstep floundered in the same way.

They are in contrast prospering.

Not wanting to harp on about it, but Hip Hop producers will not innovate because Hip Hop fans generally don't like it.

And i agree with your last point, the people making the beats now are all people who probably mainly listen to rap.

Which means they are trying to emulate 90s hip hop, instead of channeling other genres, as 90s hip hop producers were doing.

[BIG D O]

Producing in hip hop hasnt progressed at any level (from real underground-to fake underground-to-hardcore/street to- backpack-to commercial) over the last 10 years.

It all just sounds like people dont know what they should be doing now to make it interesting. They all seem to be working off the one same "formula" for making a "hip hop beat".

I think theyre all just thinking about it too much. Trying to hard to make a hip hop beat, and sticking too much to formulas. Again im talking about alll levels of rap music. Rappers now care too much about getting the "cool" beats right on there albums. They care more about getting a big name producer giving them a beat than they care about actually making a good song/album. They think all they have to do is get a cool beat and rap over it and there you go: heres some hip hop .

It doesnt work like that. And thats lazy.


At the other end of the scale, away from the stupid "super-producer" era we live in now, is the underground or hardcore or street producers. They are failing also.

My belief as why is because of what i'd call Dilution. I dont think theres as many true muscians actually making hip hop because they are generally good at music. Theyve been crowded out by your average punk whos handy with computers and who have lots of money to waste on equipment. But they dont have a musical bone in their body. But they are able to make "hip hop beats" that stand up in todays watered down market, and seen as acceptable.

Its seems to me now, that anybody is able to make a "hip hop beat". You dont have to be a talented musician, or even knowledgble about lots of genre of Music generally, you just need to know the beats-by-numbers procedure of making hip hop music. Im not just talking about the myspace/soundclick producers out there, im talking about most producers who get songs on released albums, albums that usually sell in the 5k-30k region.


IMO, the guys who were making hip hop from the 80's thru to the mid 90's were talented musicians who just happened to be alive when rap music was sweeping thru their hoods, so they lent their talent to hip hop music. If it had been Jazz, Blues, Soul whatever as the popular thing, im sure alot of those guys wouldve been very good at that, too. But it wasnt what was in then.

And then you had the DJ's. DJ's like Premier who moved into beign great producers on the back of the immense year after year knowledge he had learnt from many many musical styles and years and years of record collecting and listening to many many different songs, that had nothing to do with hip hop, from Rock to Jazz to Funk. Premier knows ALOT about music, i read one interview with him where he was reeling off Jewelz about all types of music genres most people didnt even know he was a fan of, let alone super knowledgable about it.

These are the guys who are sorely missing in todays hip hop. Guys that didnt grow up with Hip Hop as their #1 musical influence. Guys that were making hip hop based off of other musical genres. But these days your average fruity loop goon is basing all his beat makign knowledge purely just on hip hop. He probably doesnt even know about other genres of music at all.

It would be too simplistic to call it the 9th Wonder/Madlib paradox. But its a easy comparison of one guy who is clearly making hip hop beats based upon previous hip hop beats (and who happens to use purely computers to make beats), and another guy who is making hip hop beats based upon his knowledge of music. (who happens to use real life hardware and keyboards and all types of shit to make beats).

I wonder whose music will stand the test of time?

I agree with you in a lot of areas, especially when it comes to tha vast lack of creativity in the beatmaking game that is going around worse than the swine flu in Mexico.....

really though I can't say that the underground is failing at breaking down new doors and remaining hungry and relevant as far as teh production goes.....

go bump any of these new LP's/projects and then come and tell me the underground is stagnant in it's approach to new and innovative beatmaking....


Quite Nyce And Radar Ellis - The Champs Vs. The League
Fabio Musta - Passport
MF Woolly - Chrome And Ivory
Phil Da Agony - Think Green
Absract Rude - Rejuvenation
Daru & Rena - Producer's Luv EP
Scanz - The Basement Chronicles
Blame One - Days Chasing Days
DJ Honda and Problems - All Killa No Filla
Soulution - Shine Through
Muneshine - Status Symbol
Vee - State Of Mind
Kankick - Beautiful Opus Of Love
JR & PH7 - The Standard
Killa Mode - Lovexperence
De La Soul - Are You In Nike Run 45 min mix
The Away Team & Nervos Wreck - The Warm Up
Prisma - Prisma
YU - Before Taxes
Kero One - Early Believers
RecordKingz - Heavyweight
Oddisee - Mental Liberation
Divine Minds & Soulklap - The Quan
Cunninlynguists - Strange Journey Vol.1
Superstar Quamallah - Invisible Man



.......I mean, it's no surprise that a good majority of these Hip-hop releases come from guys in Japan and Europe too....that's another thing that I think stifles American Hip-Hop lovers....you gotta be willing to go outside the country in terms of groups you check out these days if you wanna hear some good productuion too.....

[DR. NICK RIVIERA]

somebody just got repped massively

[DR. NICK RIVIERA]

People who only listen to 90's hip hop (and '90s style hip hop) will naturally dislike any hip hop beat which deviates from this model.

Because they are yet to appreciate other forms of music.

Remaking 90s shit isn't going to work, and sadly, innovating isn't going to work either.

Hip Hop fans (at least those represented on this website) want something new, but dislike anything other than the classic 90s sound.

You can't win.

Exactly.

[-IrOnBuLL-]

wow after readin all this
time to give laced some needed props
even tho i dont agree 100%
but its all from his heart

i'm on the road to makin music(mixtapez, albumz etc.)
jus making sure nothin suckz. even if it does then
you'll probably might like. like the sayin: "one man'z trash the other man'z treasure"

but yo, some hip hop producerz today jus think too fast in makin music n jus
throw it to the streetz without givin their own earz to the music 1st. you know then
that they dont THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE LISTENIN TO THEIR STUFF that
THEY PROBABLY WANT TO REPLAY IT AND GIVE IT A COUPLE OF MORE LISTENZ
jus to conclude whether they like wat they hear or not.

some rap artistz too dont seem to have that thought of listenin to
themselvez 1st a couple of timez then let a few people they're cool wit give it a couple
of listenz then decide to release it to the public.

you WONT get evrybody likin your hitz but atleast u went thru hardwork, bein
yourself, not caring wat otherz think and have ppl vibe to ur way of music

^truth

[Senator C. Palantine]

The Cold Vein is probably the last Hip-Hop album i heard with almost flawless production.

[Don Universo]

My belief as why is because of what i'd call Dilution. I dont think theres as many true muscians actually making hip hop because they are generally good at music. Theyve been crowded out by your average punk whos handy with computers and who have lots of money to waste on equipment. But they dont have a musical bone in their body. But they are able to make "hip hop beats" that stand up in todays watered down market, and seen as acceptable.
--------------------------------------------------
whoever said you had to be some type of musical genius to make hip hop beats?
makin a beat isn't rocket science, and it never has been. I think some listeners dig into it too much, disecting beats too much. if your not satisfied now, then I don't think you'll ever be. Nobody is gonna invent some new form of hip hop beats and even if they do, you'll have some that would hate on them anyway.

[diggy]

I do not like the fact that many 'producers' chop up a song and rearrange it to make a new one. They add no musical input from themselves, they just remix a beat and make it repeat many times.

I like the way producers produced music from 95 and before that. They might have used a sample of an instrument from a record, but they added other things to make it sound different.

[Dooch]

My belief as why is because of what i'd call Dilution. I dont think theres as many true muscians actually making hip hop because they are generally good at music. Theyve been crowded out by your average punk whos handy with computers and who have lots of money to waste on equipment. But they dont have a musical bone in their body. But they are able to make "hip hop beats" that stand up in todays watered down market, and seen as acceptable.

True.

Hip Hop fans are too resistant to change.

They have such a limited interest in music.

This happens in every genre not only hip hop. You have a certain type of fan that is extremely loyal to a certain doctrine of what they think there favored music is and should be, and they see the music with strict boundaries.

You have plenty of these on this very board.

On the other hand, the music or movement will eventually get watered down, and the further it gets from its creators, the more different a form it will create.

What happened in the 90's was a result of what happened before it and the experiences and times of the people who wrote that music.

It cannot be duplicated or authenticated by someone today.


If you are a fan of a wide variety of music from all era's, you will easily discern this.

Its happened in Blues, Jazz, Rock, rap, country etc.

Its a part of music, its a part of life really if you wanna make some connections.

[NAKHI the SOLORIAN]

Jake One


and


Marco Polo


2 of the freshest beatmakers today