Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon.. Best NBA Center ever ?

[THE W]

again, its called help defense. you dont have to have one player who has to play the guy all by himself. the pistons were able stop shaq and did it by committee. both shaq and hakeem couldnt be gaurded one on one so no one did. and keep in mind that ben wallace was smaller than ewing and the same size as robinson yet the pistons neutralized shaq€(notice how i say the pistons and not ben wallace).

its not jordans fault those guys didnt take care of themselves or could no longer be productive. and i guess you'll use that to speculate that if they were healthy there's no way the bulls could beat them. how can you prove that? i think if jordan didnt leave to play baseball the bulls win 8 in a row, but thats just speculation.



you continue to speak in absolutes that you have no way of proving.

[THE W]

plus despite all the regular season injuries the rockets made the playoffs in those years and clyde, charles and hakeem played every playoff game.

shaq missed nearly 20 games in the '02 season due to injuries but played every playoff game and they still went on to win the NBA title. he missed more than 20 in '06 with the heat and went on to win another one.

i guess you'll counter this with shaq playing with kobe and Dwade. understand that drexler and barkley werent traditional centers so the "at 32 they break down" excuse doesnt work. also scottie pippen missed almost half the season in 98 and still battled back problems while in the playoffs. he was still effective and the bulls still went on to win. when the playoffs came around everyone was ready to go. its the players own fault they couldnt cash in.

[hectis]

I dont think shaq is better then the dream

[p-rok73]

MJ gave Steve Kerr a black eye during a practice. And it wasn't by accident. To me that was what separated the MJ led Bull's over a lot of teams. They had a strong will to win. It's true that some teams "owned the Bulls" during the season ( especially during their annual Texas Triangle of San Antonio, Houston , Dallas), but I doubt any of those teams would of beaten them during their dynasty years. Including Hakeem's Rockets during their title seasons assuming MJ never retired. The Bulls learned from one of the best ( The Bad Boys Detroit Pistons). They were a different team once they finally beat them.

[Rode Block]

again, its called help defense. you dont have to have one player who has to play the guy all by himself. the pistons were able stop shaq and did it by committee. both shaq and hakeem couldnt be gaurded one on one so no one did. and keep in mind that ben wallace was smaller than ewing and the same size as robinson yet the pistons neutralized shaq€(notice how i say the pistons and not ben wallace).

When the fuck did the Pistons shut down Shaq? In '04 he dominated the Pistons front line. He scored atleast 29 points in 4 of the five games and he even had acouple games where he grabbed 20 boards...And not ONCE did he shoot below 50%. How is that stopping Shaq? You talking out your ass right here.

The reason the Lakers lost that year was because Tayshaun Prince shut Kobe down and everyone on that team forgot how to play defense....It had nothing to do with them "shutting Shaq down"

its not jordans fault those guys didnt take care of themselves or could no longer be productive. and i guess you'll use that to speculate that if they were healthy there's no way the bulls could beat them. how can you prove that?

The fuck are you talking about? I never said any of that?

i think if jordan didnt leave to play baseball the bulls win 8 in a row, but thats just speculation.

Most people do, but I enjoy being the Devil's Advocate.

you continue to speak in absolutes that you have no way of proving.

I didn't say any "absolutes" in my last post. I just said stopping a center with a true post game is hard to do. What's absolute about that?

[Rode Block]

plus despite all the regular season injuries the rockets made the playoffs in those years and clyde, charles and hakeem played every playoff game.

Well the league was weak in those years, so it's not surprising they made the playoffs, but they still lost their touch by then and Jordan's Bulls hadn't. There's no one to blame right there. People's bodies are built differently and some can play longers than others. I don't think it has to do much with taking care of yourself, like you're trying to make it sound, those guys were just burned out while Jordan had just come off a year and a half rest and Pippen was still a very effective Small Foward (especially on defense).

shaq missed nearly 20 games in the '02 season due to injuries but played every playoff game and they still went on to win the NBA title. he missed more than 20 in '06 with the heat and went on to win another one.

Shaq played what 14 minutes in game 6 of the '06 finals? Shaq was a second fiddle that year. Wade carried that team to the title.

And in '02 Shaq missed the beginning of the season because he got surgery on his big toe. I remember him saying that he got hurt on company time so he'll recover on company time and waited until training camp to get the surgery. That surgery wasn't a big deal, and he was 100% by the time the playoffs rolled around.

i guess you'll counter this with shaq playing with kobe and Dwade.

Well Wade did carry Shaq to title, Shaq had a horrible series vs. the Mavericks.

understand that drexler and barkley werent traditional centers so the "at 32 they break down" excuse doesnt work. also scottie pippen missed almost half the season in 98 and still battled back problems while in the playoffs. he was still effective and the bulls still went on to win. when the playoffs came around everyone was ready to go. its the players own fault they couldnt cash in.

Scottie Pippen is probably the greatest defensive swginman of all time and he was one tough motherfucker. I guess Drexler and Barkley weren't.

And the at 32 they break down thing isn't an excuse, it's a fact. That's just how it goes with most Centers in the league.

[THE W]

When the fuck did the Pistons shut down Shaq? In '04 he dominated the Pistons front line. He scored atleast 29 points in 4 of the five games and he even had acouple games where he grabbed 20 boards...And not ONCE did he shoot below 50%. How is that stopping Shaq? You talking out your ass right here.

The reason the Lakers lost that year was because Tayshaun Prince shut Kobe down and everyone on that team forgot how to play defense....It had nothing to do with them "shutting Shaq down"

well this blows your argument to hell because if a big time center was scoring that many points and grabbing that many boards yet they still got blown out 3 out of 5 games it shows that you can let the big man have his points and not only win but dominate a series. why wouldnt the bulls be able to this to the rockets?

thats why i think stats are overemphazised. its not a true measure of a players impact on a game.

bottomline, we can go back and forth forever on this subject but there's no way to prove who would come out on top. so all you can say is that bulls/rockets would be a hell of a series.

[THE W]

I didn't say any "absolutes" in my last post. I just said stopping a center with a true post game is hard to do. What's absolute about that?

so you're backing off this statement?...

If the Bulls-Rockets would've met in the 1994 finals I think the Rockets would have won that series in 5 games. Easily.

[Rode Block]

well this blows your argument to hell because if a big time center was scoring that many points and grabbing that many boards yet they still got blown out 3 out of 5 games it shows that you can let the big man have his points and not only win but dominate a series. why wouldnt the bulls be able to this to the rockets?

thats why i think stats are overemphazised. its not a true measure of a players impact on a game.

They can do that, but I don't think they would've been able to.

And I agree about the stats thing. Shaq didn't do much else except score and occasionally grab boards. That's great and everything, but he should've atleast tried to defend the pick and roll. Rip/Billups and Wallace/Sheed ran that to death and Rip and Billups got open shots almost everytime because Shaq would refuse to leave the paint.

bottomline, we can go back and forth forever on this subject but there's no way to prove who would come out on top. so all you can say is that bulls/rockets would be a hell of a series.

I can agree with that.

so you're backing off this statement?...

I think=absolute? I was stating what I think would've happened. Not saying that's what would've actually happened. It was my opinion and yours differs... I guess all we can do at this point is agree to disagree.

[THE W]

fair enough big homie.

doesnt seem like shaq could ever defend the pick and roll.