A Question on Roman Catholicism

[Visionz]

i think lambs wool means white hair ...just my opion though


peace be with you !

that picture in your sig---neither white har, nor curly, nor bronze skin

meaing everything the Bible told you about the image of Jesus, through interpretation or direct translation, isn't reflected in that image.

[Face of the Golden Falcon]

idolatry in the Hebrew Bible is defined as either:

the worship of idols (or images)
the worship of polytheistic gods by use of idols (or images)
the worship of animals or people
the use of idols in the worship of God.


notice the first one "the worship of idols (or images)" distinguishes between the second form of idoltry wich is (the worship of polytheistic gods by use of idols (or images))..... the second one was the woship of false gods using idols .... the first one is direct worship of the idol itself .....so yes people did back then woship idols and thought they where GOD`s.

peace be with you !

So because the hebrews thought people worshiped images as actual gods that is proof that it actually happened??? To quote Wesley Snipes from Passenger 57 - "I know muthf**kas that say they seen Elvis. You gonna believe that shit to?!"

I asked for proof. Break down other religions/cultures of the time and prove they worshiped images as actual gods.

SHEM HETEP

[zooruka]

So because the hebrews thought people worshiped images as actual gods that is proof that it actually happened??? To quote Wesley Snipes from Passenger 57 - "I know muthf**kas that say they seen Elvis. You gonna believe that shit to?!"

I asked for proof. Break down other religions/cultures of the time and prove they worshiped images as actual gods.

SHEM HETEP

Book of Daniel, Chapter 14,[3] illustrates the Hebrew understanding of idoltry. In Daniel 14, Cyrus, king of the Persians, worships two deities, a deity named Bel and a dragon. Daniel 14 characterizes the king and some of the Babylonians as believing, literally, that Bel and the dragon are living gods:

Now the Babylons had an idol, called Bel, and there were spent upon him every day twelve great measures of fine flour, and forty sheep, and six vessels of wine.[4] And the king worshipped it and went daily to adore it: but Daniel worshipped his own God. And the king said unto him, Why dost not thou worship Bel?[5] Who answered and said, Because I may not worship idols made with hands, but the living God, who hath created the heaven and the earth, and hath sovereignty over all flesh.


this is your proof that an actual idol was worshipped.


it says that the king worshipped it and went daily to adore it.

peace be with you !

[zooruka]

my dispute is not with graven images or idol, whether and nor DO NOT mean the same thing. You said "Whether" my Bible says "Nor".

i dont see how saying whether changes the command its saying you shall make no idol "whether" that idol be from an image of heaven or on earth.... whether is a conjuction.... used to introduce the first of two or more alternatives.... so it doesnt change the commandment....its just laying down the law you shall not make any idols whether it is an image of heaven or earth.

So says the Church, but GOD put them as two seperate things, so again I'll ask , who knows better, man or God?

the first catholic commandment says 'I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.' to catholics this first commandment is sufficient because the commandment alone is enough to stipulate that only GOD should be worshipped and served ....so there is no need for graven images/idols commandment to be expressed seperatly it has already been established by the first commandment that only GOD should be served and woshipped....also like i said before graven images or idols commandment is reffering to somthing you bow down and worship as GOD (thats its meaning) otherwise GOD broke his own commandment when he gave moses the details of the ark of the covenant which has the two cheribum on it and is a model of what is in heaven. So with that being said i think that 'I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve". which is the first commandment of the catholic church is sufficient to cover the other commandment because like i said it states that only GOD should be served and worshipped there for automatically covering the commandment about the making of idols and images which one might be tempted to make and then to bow down and worship as god... but if they would have read the first commandment they would know not to do that because it says thet only GOD should be worshipped.... see how the first commandment covers the other one !!!


i think this ^^^ sums up everything on your question !

they bow down to an image. why?

if you are talking about the image of JESUS then yes that is o.k because that is the image that GOD has given us we didnt make that image of our own accord.... if you are talking about saints or mary then no you are wrong because nobody bows down and worships them they only venetrate them which means to show respect.



peace be with you !

[Face of the Golden Falcon]

Book of Daniel, Chapter 14,[3] illustrates the Hebrew understanding of idoltry. In Daniel 14, Cyrus, king of the Persians, worships two deities, a deity named Bel and a dragon. Daniel 14 characterizes the king and some of the Babylonians as believing, literally, that Bel and the dragon are living gods:

Now the Babylons had an idol, called Bel, and there were spent upon him every day twelve great measures of fine flour, and forty sheep, and six vessels of wine.[4] And the king worshipped it and went daily to adore it: but Daniel worshipped his own God. And the king said unto him, Why dost not thou worship Bel?[5] Who answered and said, Because I may not worship idols made with hands, but the living God, who hath created the heaven and the earth, and hath sovereignty over all flesh.


this is your proof that an actual idol was worshipped.


it says that the king worshipped it and went daily to adore it.

peace be with you !

You can also "prove" that the moon produces it's own light using the bible. This doesn't make it true though. All it would show is that the people who wrote the book misunderstood the way the moon reflects the suns light. In the same way all you have shown is that the people who wrote the bible misunderstood the other cultures/religions around them, the same way you do.

SHEM HETEP

[Visionz]

i dont see how saying whether changes the command its saying you shall make no idol "whether" that idol be from an image of heaven or on earth.... whether is a conjuction.... used to introduce the first of two or more alternatives.... so it doesnt change the commandment....its just laying down the law you shall not make any idols whether it is an image of heaven or earth.

nope, whether is to say these are examples of what was just said, nor is to say "in addition to" worshipping idols you also shall not create images of things in heaven or on earth. two different things.

the first catholic commandment says 'I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.' to catholics this first commandment is sufficient

But the fact is that God issued two seperate commands. You'd think that if you can create planets you'd certainly be able to realize when you we're being redundant. yes?

I think this gives credence to the fact that there is a difference between whether and nor. And also, my Bible, the King James version does not say whether it say "nor". I personally think the Catholic practice is misleading and as such you have been mislead.

if you are talking about saints or mary then no you are wrong because nobody bows down and worships them they only venetrate them which means to show respect.

nice little upside cross by the way

[zooruka]

You can also "prove" that the moon produces it's own light using the bible. This doesn't make it true though. All it would show is that the people who wrote the book misunderstood the way the moon reflects the suns light. In the same way all you have shown is that the people who wrote the bible misunderstood the other cultures/religions around them, the same way you do.

SHEM HETEP

that bible verse in genisis about the moon doesnt say that the moon generates it`s own light all it says is that it is a lesser light !!!! what you said proves nothing because the moon even if it is reflecting the sun is still a lesser light so the bible is correct...now it wouldnt be correct if it says the moon as a lesser light generates its own light which is not true...but it doesnt say that..... all it says is it is a lesser light and thats what the moon is regardless if it reflects its light from the sun.


here is somthing from the bible from job that indicates the moon doesnt have its own light source.

Job 31:26 states it a bit more directly:

“If I beheld the
sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness.”

“Walking in brightness” communicates the idea that the moon is walking in the light of another source, an example of this would be like the sun shining on a person who is taking a walk during summer.... the person has no light of his or her own but they are still walking in brightness...same principle is applied in job to the moon.



peace be with you !

[Visionz]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/venerate

first word under synonyms:

idolize

[zooruka]

nope, whether is to say these are examples of what was just said, nor is to say "in addition to" worshipping idols you also shall not create images of things in heaven or on earth. two different things.

look at the kjv it doesnt even say nor whether (lol) it is in exodus or dueteronomy


Exodus 20:4
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."


Deuteronomy 5:8
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth

But the fact is that God issued two seperate commands. You'd think that if you can create planets you'd certainly be able to realize when you we're being redundant. yes?

the church is using its common sense by incorperating the two commandments into one because they saw that the first commandment covers the other commandment about graven images/idols.

this picture proves nothing those people are praying to mary for intercetion not worshiping her as GOD.

nice little upside cross by the way

the upside down cross is just a symbol of st peter because thats how he was crucified...people are not worshiping it as GOD.



peace be with you !

[Visionz]

this picture proves nothing those people are praying to mary for intercetion not worshiping her as GOD.

there you go, you've said it yourself. What good is praying to Mary? That's idolizing her and putting her on God's level.

Exodus 20:4
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

you're right but the meaning extracted from that is the same as it saying "nor" vs, "whether". People shouldn't be making images of anything in Heaven or next thing you know you'll have a bunch of people praying to an IMAGE of Mary as if she had the power to grant those prayers.

the church is using its common sense by incorperating the two commandments into one because they saw that the first commandment covers the other commandment about graven images/idols.

saying the Church is using its common sense is another way of saying God was being redundant. And if that first commandment took care of it all, why are people PRAYING to the Virgin Mary?

[Visionz]

pray  [prey] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of worship).
2. to offer (a prayer).
3. to bring, put, etc., by praying: to pray a soul into heaven.
4. to make earnest petition to (a person).
5. to make petition or entreaty for; crave: She prayed his forgiveness.
6. to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to God or to an object of worship.
7. to enter into spiritual communion with God or an object of worship through prayer.

[zooruka]

ill let you in on a little somthing visions .......I dont believe in praying to saints or to mary either.

peace be with you !

[Visionz]

ill let you in on a little somthing visions .......I dont believe in praying to saints or to mary either.

peace be with you !

but having those statues around everywhere doesn't help. Believe me when I say God didn't want man making images of anything. What's seen with the eyes is great for deceiving yet the Catholic Church will give you the answers that they have. That is a deception in itself.

[Face of the Golden Falcon]

that bible verse in genisis about the moon doesnt say that the moon generates it`s own light all it says is that it is a lesser light !!!! What you said proves nothing because the moon even if it is reflecting the sun is still a lesser light so the bible is correct...now it wouldnt be correct if it says the moon as a lesser light generates its own light which is not true...but it doesnt say that..... All it says is it is a lesser light and thats what the moon is regardless if it reflects its light from the sun.


Here is somthing from the bible from job that indicates the moon doesnt have its own light source.

Job 31:26 states it a bit more directly:

“if i beheld the
sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness.”

“walking in brightness” communicates the idea that the moon is walking in the light of another source, an example of this would be like the sun shining on a person who is taking a walk during summer.... The person has no light of his or her own but they are still walking in brightness...same principle is applied in job to the moon.



Peace be with you !

isaiah 30 : 26

isaiah 13 : 10

[zooruka]

isaiah 30 : 26

isaiah 13 : 10

Isaiah 30:26

Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

that still doesnt prove anything all its says is that the light of the moon will be as bright as the light of the sun.... the moon still rardiates light regardless if it is reflected from the sun.... the verse still does not indicated that the moon has its own light.


isaiah 13 : 10

For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.


this still doesnt prove anything her light to shine means the moon will not shine it still doesnt state that the moon has a light of its own.


peace be with you !