^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post
and i swear i'm one of only about 10 people who post here that has reasoning skills beyond those of a 5 year old.
^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post
and i swear i'm one of only about 10 people who post here that has reasoning skills beyond those of a 5 year old.
lol at this even being a debate
I mean holy shit just put the classic tracks these two have made next to each other and its ridiculous. Lupe is nice and all, but cmon....
im staying away from this one, this shouldent have made it 4 pages long
this post was ironic due to the poster... no disrespect tho.Originally Posted by twiztid_wutang
lol@Clancy... but this kinda resurfaces the Meth/Budden beef... "METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND METHS A LEGEND"
so....
word up... although Pac could've been better till Suge brain washed him.. Conscious heads HAVE TO consider 2pacalypse a fuckin classic & Strictly was bangin too (save "I'll Get Around")... after that he turned into some homo thug instead of keepin with the message.
nigga nigga nigga *smh*... give respect where respect is due but c'mon... and don't say it's cause i can't relate cause it sure as fuck ain't that. lol that was kinda extreme... but your opinion
lol
this killed the thread to the T.
imo... IMO.... as a lyricist Lupe has better word play and you can't deny that. he is socially conscious but that also (especially after the skateboard-gate) kills his realism as far as being ear to the streets type. his "personal" songs come off feeble. like he heard a story about a kid. but what he does with politics is off the charts:
"Yes indeed, democracy's a flirt in a miniskirt trying to give a handjob to the desert till it squirt Texas tea, then they give a condom to Congress to stretch and siege."
Pac... well i look at pac this way... there was Tupac & there was 2pac. there was that conscious nigga that you can compare to Lupe that was growing with food for thought and coulda been a healthy man that maybe MAYBE could've even J. Lennon'd the music industry with the right push but then he met Suge and transformed into 2PAC!!!! the nigga that was too cool to spell his own name right!!! too gangsta to think with more than 4 brain cells!!! too THUG LIFE to grow the fuck up!!! and too simple to not see what Suge was doing to him.
what Tupac did wasn't "the government is foul! boo bush!" like lupe does, but he brought them down to his level and said look me in the face. it was nothing close to general & all the while callin out his own people too. that nigga i respect. that nigga i'm scared of.
2pac was marketable and, while he did have skill, was just a raw type cat. yeah yeah yeah pac's a legend... but that legend was made of a man that had a brain just as you do. was that brain capable of the metaphor's Lupe has? no.
And i know this gon get me hated on but without big, would pac have his stature? i'm not askin for a debate on big but who can say pac's fame and all that is ALL PAC??
i'ma be the first to say i'ma fan of Lupe and Hate pac... i ain't tryin to look like i'm ouside the box cause i WAS ouside the box... till i heard them and decided who i was more interested in. that's how music works. but i don't like pac cause it gets old. i know that shit so i don't wanna hear that shit. i ain't guna knock on anybody that likes pac tho cause i know he had an influence and still does and he wasn't flat out retarded making D4L music... he made sense. Lupe is just more my style. i'm cool with a debate but just don't hate. ranting and raving won't change my opinion.
i never completely tuned pac out... i always at least gave his albums a spin. i was just the east coast kid that came up on BIG, RED & Wu so i drift towards the east coast-ness. and it's been said but you can't compare the 2 really... it's like a paul wall/ pharoahe monch debate... they're just different and talkin about pac, especially round where i live now, is pointless. it's like talkin about the Cowboys... you can't help but want to but just don't do it.
[rethinking hitting submit reply...]
2pac.
Better voice, better delivery, more precise with his words & easily got the best body of work.
I do prefer Lupe as a lyricist though.
the ridiculousness of the comparison....
i can't even think of a wack pac song.
i agree with everything pandemic said except the part about nobody after him getting "street people" to get conscious.
he must have never heard of goodiemob or outkast.
let me comment on what dusk said about hitler/clancy.
if the goal of writing is to convey thought and emotion in a way that moves the reader to think feel or act, then hitler would be the better writer.
van goh's paintings are shitty from a technical perspective, but if you have ever looked up close at "starry night" you see the strokes almost tell a story. you get a sense of his emotional state when he painted it.
a photorealistic painting lacks that emotional dimension. its devoid of the human element. perspective.
pac had the ability to connect with people. and lets not get it twisted pac was one of the greatest lyricsts of all time. he just wasn't spitting some giant robot daydream raps which i guess dusk preferred.
so wordsmithing is important but is it better than honest expression?
thats a big hell no.
what is it exactly that suge was doing to him?
you got this completely backwards ... 2pac was already well established in the game before biggie smalls came on the scene, both in the streets and in hollywood ... and I can say that all pac's fame came from pac because biggie smalls was just a minor figga compared to 2pac ... if it wasn't for 2pac, biggie smalls would've never been remembered by anyone outside of the hip hop world
homo thug? you mean the homo thug that shot two police officers and beat the charges, right? the same homo thug who put jacques agnant on blast even though he was heavily connected to jimmy henchmen? the same homo thug who exposed king tut and the black mafia for extorting money out of puffy and bad boy, a record label which the black mafia funded?
i think its cool if you want to discuss pac as a lyricist, but its pretty clear that you know nothing about the man besides the things you've heard on vh1 behind the music and articles you've read in the source ... just stick to talking about his music, let the people who really know how the game went discuss his relationship with the streets, cuz i can already tell that's something you have absolutely no knowledge about
its funny u say that, because i think Lupe is more comparible to Van Gogh. Think about it....and smh at people waltzin in to this thread sayin...."please...no comparison" etc....
BEWARE:
https://soundcloud.com/frieza-saga
BEWARE:
https://soundcloud.com/frieza-saga
BEWARE:
https://soundcloud.com/frieza-saga
@speakonitgod
I know what im saying and almost everything pertained to his music. how did your 2nd to last paragraph? seemed to me it was defending his thugyness.
if you wanna talk about social credibility then pac shuts the shit down. but it did not need to take pac being a thug to do what he did.
I never said big was all big. I been rockin big since RTD as opposed to those that knew him for Mo Money but I ain't guna front like he'd still be as widely known without pac. and I know pac had a career beforehand, im not taking that away.
so I am discussing the lyricist as hard as that may be without mentioning the man cause too many heads are too ignorant to differentiate between his legend status and his lyrical ability. my objective was to separate the 2 so as I may have come off like I didn't know what he really did it was cause it aint about what he really did. if you wanna make a 2pac Appreciation thread I have almost no doubt ill be agreeing with you on many of your points.
well yeah, but goodie mob and outkast were part of pac's era though...if i recall (i was only 12 when pac died so i might be wrong) soul food and still standing dropped while pac was still alive.
i meant artist who had their debuts after tupac died...i would consider kast and goodie mob contemporaries of tupac.
Last edited by Dr. Simon Hurt; 08-01-2009 at 09:21 AM.
No, the question was "how was 2pac better in anyway";
You mean this post?
I don't see lyricist, do you?
Last edited by The Hound; 08-01-2009 at 09:28 AM.
Posts by The Hound are signed TH.
Quoting ≠ Agreement.
about the technical/realistic vs. emotional perspective...van gogh still knew the rules of perspective and photorealism which was why he was successfully able to circumvent them...if you take classes in any artistic discipline one of the main things they'll stress to you is you need to know the rules in order to break them, which is why dali or picasso, or even a kandinsky were successfully able to do what they did. or even in terms of writing, i'm sure ee cummings could probably write conventional poetry or even prose with no problem, which was why the poetry can still break with convention and work.
i've never read hitler or tom clancy so i can't speak on that comparison.
you got me on that one, i forgot about like 10 posts of polysyllabic bullshit before this one
I guess in my mind since this was the first post that made any sense I was considering it the first one lol
but you're right.
^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post
Posts by The Hound are signed TH.
Quoting ≠ Agreement.
I don't even level with people who argue lyricism in hip-hop. Like I could go in to the wu-chamber and say Ghostface is a better rapper than Gza and everyone would start getting upset.
'But Gza was a better lyricist! lol!'
Fuck that. Only herbs care so much about the complexity of a rappers lyrics and hip-hop wasn't built on herbs and what they have to say, period. Saying a rapper is a more 'complex lyricist' than another seems to me like a desperate reach to prove to people that the rapper you like the most is the better lyricist.
Tupac wrote lyrics that resonated with more people in the hip-hop community than Lupe and it could be argued that his lyrics were just as good, even if they were a little less complex. Complicated lyrics aren't automatically good just because they're complicated.
Ice Ice Baby had bigger words than Brooklyn Zoo, but which song do you think was iller lyrically?
Last edited by 5hundred&one; 08-01-2009 at 11:18 AM.
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