2pac vs Lupe

[Uncle Steezo]

about the technical/realistic vs. emotional perspective...van gogh still knew the rules of perspective and photorealism which was why he was successfully able to circumvent them...if you take classes in any artistic discipline one of the main things they'll stress to you is you need to know the rules in order to break them, which is why dali or picasso, or even a kandinsky were successfully able to do what they did. or even in terms of writing, i'm sure ee cummings could probably write conventional poetry or even prose with no problem, which was why the poetry can still break with convention and work.

i've never read hitler or tom clancy so i can't speak on that comparison.

this is true. but not every great artist is classically trained and that goes for any discipline. some people have natural ability from birth.
some artists are great because they haven't been conditioned by rules.
basquait comes to mind. maya angelou. donald goines. sun ra.

these artists break rules without knowing them.

do you have to know scales and be able to read music to be a great musician? could picasso have done the same work without knowing perspective and photorealism? a child can pick up a crayon and create a masterpiece.

art is the purest expression of the human spirit.


to be honest there are no rules when it comes to art.




on a side note, dali is my fav artist but nothing about his technique is out of the ordinary. his mind, personality and images he conveyed were tho.

[The Hound]

Hitler might not have needed to express himself in a regulation structure but after only really writing two books - one of which was an autobriography and the other being a contradictory follow up to the autobiography - he was not an influential writer. Hitler was an influential person and leader and incredible public speaker but suggesting he was an influential writer is ridiculous.

[Uncle Steezo]

his speeches were written.

[ALCATRAZ]

I don't even level with people who argue lyricism in hip-hop. Like I could go in to the wu-chamber and say Ghostface is a better rapper than Gza and everyone would start getting upset.

'But Gza was a better lyricist! lol!'

Fuck that. Only herbs care so much about the complexity of a rappers lyrics and hip-hop wasn't built on herbs and what they have to say, period. Saying a rapper is a more 'complex lyricist' than another seems to me like a desperate reach to prove to people that the rapper you like the most is the better lyricist.

Tupac wrote lyrics that resonated with more people in the hip-hop community than Lupe and it could be argued that his lyrics were just as good, even if they were a little less complex. Complicated lyrics aren't automatically good just because they're complicated.

Ice Ice Baby had bigger words than Brooklyn Zoo, but which song do you think was iller lyrically?

finally ......... someone gets it

[CharlesJones]

2Pac is way better than Lupe hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. 2Pac is one of my favorite rappers. His lyrics were hardcore and a lot of ghetto black men felt his lyrics. I miss 2Pac. RIP my brother. You finally got some peace now away from this evil world. If 2Pac was still alive, his music would be better than these faggot rappers out now.

[Dr. Simon Hurt]

^^^lol, he probably didn't read the original post

lol you so crazy

this is true. but not every great artist is classically trained and that goes for any discipline. some people have natural ability from birth.
some artists are great because they haven't been conditioned by rules.
basquait comes to mind. maya angelou. donald goines. sun ra.

these artists break rules without knowing them.

do you have to know scales and be able to read music to be a great musician? could picasso have done the same work without knowing perspective and photorealism? a child can pick up a crayon and create a masterpiece.

art is the purest expression of the human spirit.


to be honest there are no rules when it comes to art.




on a side note, dali is my fav artist but nothing about his technique is out of the ordinary. his mind, personality and images he conveyed were tho.

well art doesn't exist in a vacuum, so i'm sure goines and angelou absorbed and learned from books they had read throughout their lives, basquiat with art, sun ra with music.it's like an intuitive education of 'this is what i want to do...i like what these guys are doing...let me figure out what i think works and why and incorporate it into what i'm doing.' autodidacticism is just as valid as being taught in a classroom. but i'll agree quality art can be done without all that if you're just trying to convey a mood or feeling. It basically boils down to form vs. function style vs. substance, and all that. and if a self taught artist would lose anything by learning the accepted conventions of a form. like people say rza's not as good now that he's learned more about music, as opposed to when he started, when it was intuitive and all about the energy.

dali wasn't all surrealistic toreador and persistence of memory. he got pretty abstract and formless sometimes too, those peices just aren't as famous.

[oDoUoSoKo]

i did read the og post, doesnt change anything i said really. and i rather listen to lupe than pac nowadays.

[oDoUoSoKo]

but suggesting he was an influential writer is ridiculous.

smfh.





anyways....u missed the exit, just stop driving all together.



as for the lyricist vs. rapper shit, honestly chew balls. You gonna argue that eazy e is a better rapper than canibus? lets hear that.

[oDoUoSoKo]

actually let me clarify, obviously i think theres more to rapping than lyricism...but i wouldnt put LL Cool J over Vordul Mega cuz he could fuckin flex his biceps and scream that hes gonna knock you out..on stage. eloels.

[ALCATRAZ]

i would definitely put ll cool j over half of these backpackin herbs mostly for the fact that his debut came out in fuckin 1985 before most of us were even living and secondly he is still relevant because here you are in 2009 with his name in ur mouth ....

ll cool j wins

[oDoUoSoKo]

actually, i havent said his name...ive typed it tho....speakonitgod loses....eloels.


and i wouldnt put it past u to rank a rapper over another because their album came out before..smh.

[The Hound]

Eazy-E was a better rapper than Canibus - E had mic presence, tight flow and a good delivery and NWA knew this which is why they put out Eazy-Duz-It before a new group album with the adjusted roster. Eazy-E couldn't write for shit but the dude could deliver a rap like a professional Domino's driver - Canibus has the same boring monotone flow on all of his albums and only ever pulled off one album worth listening to when he had to get one of the best on the boards - Stoupe - the rest of his albums at worst suck dogs balls and at best are average.


^^ Better than any Canibus song.

The whole concept of lyricism being the defining factor on who is good or who isn't is fucking bullshit because then you would get faggots like Warcloud and Canibus considered G.O.A.T. because they sit there all night reading a thesaurus trying to come up with complex rhymes that make no sense but are so confusing to the general public they assume it has to be dope because words have three or mor syllables. 2Pac might not have some out there metaphoric, multi-line rhyme scheme but he didn't need to do that because he made fucking good music regardless and that is why he is better than Lupe. Another reason he is better than Lupe, and pretty much the only reason that matters, his music is better.









One song off every 2Pac album he worked on that is better than anything Lupe ever did and we could play a game where you post a Lupe song and I post a song Pac did that was better off a different album.

his speeches were written.

His speeches were verbally delivered which is what made him an influential leader/public speaker not an influential writer. He conned an entire nation through deceit in his speeces which he spoke.

[ALCATRAZ]

dusk is like the ultimate non hip hop fan he has said so many fuckin atrocious ridiculous comments over my time here its hard to understand why he has a wu tang w next to his name

[oDoUoSoKo]

ok now things r getting ridiculous. and its easy speak..cuz im a much bigger hip hop fan than you.

[oDoUoSoKo]

the reason there is no sense in me even attempting to explain things to u guys is because u hang on to the cliched concept of hip hop like your mothers saggin tits...LL Cool J HAS to be better than Canibus...Eazy HAS to be better than Warcloud....why? because hip hop says so...who is hip hop?


Speakonitgod, and Energy Turtle.