Question to the real muslims.
Is osama bin laden, al zahwari and alqaeda real muslims...and please, it may be complicated, and I don`t care how you explain it.... I would just like someone to give me a straight yes or no answer.... are they true muslims or not ????
p.s please don`t close this thread, I really genuinely want to know what muslims think.
peace be with you !
i doubt that there are any muslims on this board that know those two
you'd do better to write the news station that told you about these two and ask them
There's not a yes or no answer, Islam told us to fight those who fight us, so it depends of the understanding of this sentence (wich is in the Quran but I already quoted it for you numerous times, search our others discussions). I can tell you that every muslim scholar analyse it differently, theres not a unique understanding.
Some consider Al Queda is fighting those who agressed the muslims. Obviously Al Quaeda thinks USA is fighting the Islam.
Some consider Al Quaeda is agressing people and countries that did not fought Islam so they're not true muslims.
Some suppose the US civilians and innocents did nothing to muslims so those who killed them (9/11 for example) are sinners.
Some consider the ennemies of Islam are also killing civilians and innocent people (Israel wich is supported by the USA) then an Eye for an Eye and a Tooth for a Tooth.
Some think the kamikaze kill themselves wich is a great sin in Islam so they're sinners.
A real Muslim is someone who abides by the Qu'Ran. If your actions contradict the instructions of the Qu'Ran, then you are not a Muslim. Islam means submission to the path of the God. To be a Muslim it means to be the noun version of Islam, meaning it is a person that submits their will to the path of The God. Clearly, Osama Bin Laden's actions are contradictory, and therefore No, he is not a true Muslim.
Fake Muslims can claim to be Real Muslims all they want, but their actions should speak volumes of whether or not they are real muslims or not.
Conclusion:
To Answer your Question:
No.
Correct me if I'm mistaken,Originally Posted by Hellspawn
isn't it Osama's crew that gave kids a key and told them that if they kill themselves and take multiple people with them, that this key would grant them heaven??
Whoever delivers that message to the youth is a Fake Muslim.
I've never heard about this story but if it's true they're indeed fake muslims, there's not such a practice in islam.
You know I hardly believe anything that comes from the media nowerdays (from both sides) so ones better concentrate on his stuff and make his own conclusions when it comes to politic, terrorism and war.
True, with what I just read from your statement my mind also came to the conclusion that it should not matter for us individual human beings to determine if one if a true Muslim or not- the matter should be left between Allah and the individual... We are not to judge, but to follow the instructions set before us, and to correct any errors by citing and referring to the text delivered to us.
Exactely ! it's up to god to judge his creations.
Get to know this guy's work and everything will become clear to you.
(But, since I know nobody will actually do it, let me put it down relevantly to thread title. Osama is a real Muslim, and ShamIll and Hellspawn should, based on what they said in this thread, get a takfir on their asses.)
"The Devil is not the Prince of Matter; the Devil is the arrogance of the spirit, faith without smile, truth that is never seized by doubt. The Devil is grim because he knows where he is going, and, in moving, he always returns whence he came."
Slim, define what a muslim is and explain by examples why you think those people are muslim.
^^^^
Isn`t that sayeed katoub, I have read about him, he was the eygptian dude who said islam was not pure anymore and wrote a book (the name escapes me) about how to purify islam again, and intern this became the spiritual philosophy for eygptian islamic jihad, who al zahawari was the leader of and when he (al zahwari) went to afghanistan after being realsed from jail in eygpt, he taught this philosophy to bin laden and they formed al qaeda.
I think thats what right correct me if Im wrong ?????
But that still doesn`t explain if they are real muslims, because katoub isn`t the only authority on islam.
peace be with you !
Last edited by zooruka; 05-06-2010 at 06:34 PM.
Yup, generally you got it right.
Now the problem is that his version of Islam - "purified" from all Western influences - leads to such characters as Zahawari and Laden. If those were just isolated cases, that would be no problem, but that view is quickly becoming mainstream. I live in a block with many Bosnians and a lot of them (with help of bullshit that the "West", in this case Croatia and USA did to them) have a world view strikingly similar to Bin Laden, only without car bombs.
And to answer FMJ question, because it became rather common for Qutb's followers to declare takfir on everyone not agreeing with them. I think you know what the punishment for apostasy is.
"The Devil is not the Prince of Matter; the Devil is the arrogance of the spirit, faith without smile, truth that is never seized by doubt. The Devil is grim because he knows where he is going, and, in moving, he always returns whence he came."
Ok, but their words are not in agreement with the definition of a muslim in the Quran.
The punishment for apostasy is not in the Quran.
It was made up later.
True ! It is not in the Quran, it has been made in the time of the prophet for a certain group of people who enter islam together then leave it together to cause confusion and uncertaincy. They were given three days to repent though.
So Slim T, your arguement is that the philosophy of a man 1300 years after the QuRan was revealed defines what a true Muslim is??
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