Question to the real muslims.

[Edgar Erebus]

Nope. I ironically said what's opinion of guys like Bin Laden about who's the real Muslim (too bad internet doesn't notice vocal inflections). Basically, their point is that only they represent real Islam, and everyone else renounced it in their deeds. The problem is that such guys are multiplying at an alarming rate.

And about Quran... Don't even get me started. Let's just say I read it again recently with a clear head and that a vast part of the book is outdated.

[Edgar Erebus]

Or actually...

I've been thinking a bit now and I concluded that Bin Laden actually represents real islam and that all you are fake muslims.

If you're interested, I can explain to you how I concluded that, but first I need to cook my lunch for today. It's not pork.

[Hellspawn]

Nope. I ironically said what's opinion of guys like Bin Laden about who's the real Muslim (too bad internet doesn't notice vocal inflections). Basically, their point is that only they represent real Islam, and everyone else renounced it in their deeds. The problem is that such guys are multiplying at an alarming rate.

And about Quran... Don't even get me started. Let's just say I read it again recently with a clear head and that a vast part of the book is outdated.

If you believ that book is the world of god sent to the worlds you can't say it is outdated. If you believe it is another book in the wind then you can say it's outdated, old-fashioned, obsolete ...

The Quran is the source AND the rule (not the exception), in a perfect world it would be the way to follow but with such parameters today such as politic, wordly laws and codes it is hard to apply it without going against alot of things.

[Hellspawn]

Or actually...

I've been thinking a bit now and I concluded that Bin Laden actually represents real islam and that all you are fake muslims.

If you're interested, I can explain to you how I concluded that, but first I need to cook my lunch for today. It's not pork.

LOL

Explain it when you got time (but I think I actually see where you want to go) :
Bin Laden wants islamic countries to be ruled according to the Sharia, he's right on this when it comes to religion and the practice of the deen but the ways he's using are questionnable. On the other hand it is also impossible to settle these rules differently because in Saudi Arabia for example (this can be applied to 80 or 90% of the muslim countries) the rulers won't step back and let this happends because they will loose alot of money and power (that's why I said in another topic that they're corrupted) so we're in a dead-end. That's why he's trying to use violence for there's no other choice.

[Edgar Erebus]

LOL

Explain it when you got time (but I think I actually see where you want to go) :
Bin Laden wants islamic countries to be ruled according to the Sharia, he's right on this when it comes to religion and the practice of the deen but the ways he's using are questionnable. On the other hand it is also impossible to settle these rules differently because in Saudi Arabia for example (this can be applied to 80 or 90% of the muslim countries) the rulers won't step back and let this happends because they will loose alot of money and power (that's why I said in another topic that they're corrupted) so we're in a dead-end. That's why he's trying to use violence for there's no other choice.

Well, a bit differently. I think you agree with my understanding that Islam is not just a fait, it's also a way of life, living in according with Quran. Now, the thing is that some laws of most countries contradict the rules written in Quran (that happened with "modernization" and "westernization" of islamic countries, but also because Quran was written 1300 years ago and world chaged drastically since; for example nowadays it's unacceptable to beat your wife, and Quran says it's a man's duty if she doesn't obey). Therefore, if you live in according to those laws, you also renounced a bit of islamic life practice - enough to get takfir.

Now, since every government, corrupt or not, won't change those laws to be in according to Quran, the only option remains to fight, and because the source of those laws is the West, then the West is the primary enemy of Islam and must be fought. Therefore, if you don't fight, then you agree with watering down of Islam and deviating from the norm.

And so only two choices remain: either to be in Bin Laden's camp or being a fake Muslim.

Just to make it clear, it's not that I have an issue with Islam, that goes for all religions, but that's another subject.

[zooruka]

And so only two choices remain: either to be in Bin Laden's camp or being a fake Muslim.

So slim what you are saying is the way bin laden practices or wants islam to be practice is true islam...and anyone who says otherwise is a fake muslim...is this correct ?????


Man this is confusing to get a straight answer....I mean people say just read the quran and you will know what islam is and how it should be truly practiced, but for somone who hasn`t got the time to sit down and read the koran, I just want to know of those who have read the koran and claim to be practicing it authentically according to the quran and the hadiths, who is the closest to proper islam, the islamists , the normal everyday practicing muslims or the islamic countries such as saudi arabia who`s whole system is based on islam....seriously one of these three must be practicing islam or a close form of it , because as far as I understand the islamists, the normal everyday practicing muslims and the govermental islamic regiems are the only three groups of muslims there is !!!!!! and all are vying for the claim of authentic islam..so like I said one of them must be practicing it properly otherwise who else is there ?????





peace be with you !

[Hellspawn]

So slim what you are saying is the way bin laden practices or wants islam to be practice is true islam...and anyone who says otherwise is a fake muslim...is this correct ?????


Man this is confusing to get a straight answer....I mean people say just read the quran and you will know what islam is and how it should be truly practiced, but for somone who hasn`t got the time to sit down and read the koran, I just want to know of those who have read the koran and claim to be practicing it authentically according to the quran and the hadiths, who is the closest to proper islam, the islamists , the normal everyday practicing muslims or the islamic countries such as saudi arabia who`s whole system is based on islam....seriously one of these three must be practicing islam or a close form of it , because as far as I understand the islamists, the normal everyday practicing muslims and the govermental islamic regiems are the only three groups of muslims there is !!!!!! and all are vying for the claim of authentic islam..so like I said one of them must be practicing it properly otherwise who else is there ?????


peace be with you !

I hope you're kidding, you have time to sit and discuss on this forum and you can't google Quran and read ?

I think you're uncertain of your actual belief but you're afraid to discover the truth.

LEt me ask you a question (for once) ; how do you think a religion who is not the easiest (5 prayers and alot of restrictions etc...) and with all the bad publicity and the bad image given to islam by the media and the wars going on against islalml, is still the one that attracts and converts most people in the world especially in america and europe?

[Hellspawn]

No answer?

[zooruka]

I hope you're kidding, you have time to sit and discuss on this forum and you can't google Quran and read ??

I have read some passages from the koran, but to sit down and read the whole thing aned actually have someone explain the true meaning..I ain`t got time for.... not to be rude.

I think you're uncertain of your actual belief but you're afraid to discover the truth.

Actually on the contray...Im 100% certain of my beliefs, and found from what I have read in the koran, that it contridicts the fundemental truths of christianity...such as Jesus not being God and not dying on the cross, not to mention in the bible it says all foods have been made permisable for christians to eat by God, when the koran has contridicted this by saying pork is forbidden....and to believe that the bible is corrupted because some dude in the desert 1700 years ago said so, is bit hard for me to accept, especially because he said God told him and the bible says that everyone who wrote the bible was guided by the holy spirit (the spirit of God).

LEt me ask you a question (for once) ; how do you think a religion who is not the easiest (5 prayers and alot of restrictions etc...) and with all the bad publicity and the bad image given to islam by the media and the wars going on against islalml, is still the one that attracts and converts most people in the world especially in america and europe?

Im not sure why so many people are converting to islam, I guess they feel that islam stands for justice in this modern world...but when you read the bible you see that what the koran teaches is contray to the wishes of God for mankind that are expressed in the new testement...and no violance is permissable, whether it be for self defense or not...and you can`t deny that the islamic quran premits violence in certain circumstances...which according to christianity is wrong...(no matter what violence people have committed in the name of christianity in the past), this teaching is not from the bible (new testement), where as the violence muslims committe is permitted in the koran, even if it is only meant to be used in self defense....but retaliation in any form is wrong according to Jesus who said his revelation was for all mankind for all time...and is even more wrong when you are using violence.



peace hell


I think I have all the answers I need for now , but be sure if I have anymore questions I will not to hesitate to ask you, thanks for being patient with me and answering all my questions to the best of your ability it is much appreciated, I hope i didn`t seem rude, and if I might have given you that impression then, Im sorry I never meant to be rude...


p.s I added you as a friend.


peace be with you !


peace be with you !

[Edgar Erebus]

So, to put it shortly. You believe something 'cause a certain Yoshua bar Yosef said so 2000 years ago, and at the same time refuse to believe what a certain Muhammad ibn Abdullah al Quraish said 1400 years ago.

Well that's a dilemma, isn't it?

[Mumm Ra]

so if the quran is false because the bible says otherwise, how do you know the bible isn't false because the quran says otherwise?
cuz that's just the way it is?

[Hellspawn]

I have read some passages from the koran, but to sit down and read the whole thing aned actually have someone explain the true meaning..I ain`t got time for.... not to be rude.

If you're seeking the truth and really want to know, you'll find the time.

Actually on the contray...Im 100% certain of my beliefs, and found from what I have read in the koran, that it contridicts the fundemental truths of christianity...such as Jesus not being God and not dying on the cross

This is not in the bible, they could have told you he have been burnt alive and you would believed it.

not to mention in the bible it says all foods have been made permisable for christians to eat by God, when the koran has contridicted this by saying pork is forbidden....

So why don't you eat dead meat or human flesh if all food is permitted ? Even science proved the pork's flesh is shady.

and to believe that the bible is corrupted because some dude in the desert 1700 years ago said so, is bit hard for me to accept, especially because he said God told him and the bible says that everyone who wrote the bible was guided by the holy spirit (the spirit of God).

-1400 years ago
-Jesus did not wrote the bible and paul/Mark/matthew have nothing to do with the holy spirit
-Muhammad recieved the revelation through angel Jibreel

Im not sure why so many people are converting to islam, I guess they feel that islam stands for justice in this modern world...

Because it is the Truth !!!!!

but when you read the bible you see that what the koran teaches is contray to the wishes of God for mankind that are expressed in the new testement...

I think it is a little bit cocky to pretend to know the wishes of God.

and no violance is permissable, whether it be for self defense or not...and you can`t deny that the islamic quran premits violence in certain circumstances...which according to christianity is wrong...(no matter what violence people have committed in the name of christianity in the past).

These violences would have repugned those like you.

this teaching is not from the bible (new testement), where as the violence muslims committe is permitted in the koran, even if it is only meant to be used in self defense....

You said it yourself Quran is just, if someone agrerss you, you can defend yourself.

but retaliation in any form is wrong according to Jesus who said his revelation was for all mankind for all time...and is even more wrong when you are using violence.

We already prven in the other topic that jesus refused to help a woman because she wasnt israelite. He was sent only for the sons of israel.

peace hell

I think I have all the answers I need for now , but be sure if I have anymore questions I will not to hesitate to ask you, thanks for being patient with me and answering all my questions to the best of your ability it is much appreciated, I hope i didn`t seem rude, and if I might have given you that impression then, Im sorry I never meant to be rude...

It's cool bro, nice building !

[spiggity_ace]

off topic but doesnt al qaeda mean ' the toilet' or something along those lines

[Mumm Ra]

you could just google it before asking weird questions

[zooruka]

off topic but doesnt al qaeda mean ' the toilet' or something along those lines

from memory " The Base"


peace be with you !