Communism vs. Capitalism

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

we were dropped here by aliens.
the bible says it right there in genesis.
the sumerians and every other culture on earth will tell you this to be true.

anyway... boarz isn't even old enough to drive and has been old enough to work for less than a year. why are you arguing with him? i got kids older than him. damn.

Fox, when you can translate Sumerian cuneiform on your own, tell me about it. Until then it's just modern day mythology. Were that the case, we weren't dropped here, we are genetically enhanced versions of cavemen who were already here.

And I'm almost 18. Which is young, but not unlearned. I'd be middle aged in Africa.

I had suspected that you were not actually human, but an invertebrate that had somehow managed to learn English, learn to handle a computer, and find WuTang-Corp. Now I know for sure that you're spineless.

You lay your trust in a class of people whose economic gains are not yours or mine, but their own. A class that expropriate profits to themselves while socializing the losses through taxpayer bailouts. Their profits are inherently our losses for the very reason that the value they extract is stolen from our labour as workers. We as workers, through our compliance, have them exploit us with the very means of production (factory, machines) that we built ourselves.

Today, companies overproduce clothing and tear it to shreds if it won't sell; we have grain companies that dump inventory into the ocean so as to not give away or give cheaply; we have bookstores that set books ablaze so as to not drive the price of their own profits down. The rich overproduce and destroy while the poor, who couldn't have helped being born into a poor family, see nothing from this system of commodity overproduction.

In America, the top 1% wealthiest own more capital than the bottom 95% combined. The top 1% also own more than 44% of all American assets. How many do you think earned the position through their own work and how many were born into it? They were all born into it. Just as the poor and homeless you see today were born into their economic position - except they outnumber the rich a million to one.

So with such disproportionality in this system of "equal playing field", how does one justify capitalistic inheritance of wealth/poverty? The market, as it stands, is fully in the favour and affixed to the benefit of only the same bourgeois lines that have been in existance for centuries. Many of these lines existed even times of feudalism, people whose ancestors were born into an aristocratic family of titled land owners granted feudal privileges by the monarch.

But supposedly capitalism provides and equal playing field of competition? It doesn't; it provides a more "legitimized" and economic platform for the same ruling lines that had existed to perpetuate its dominance on the rest of the population as they have been doing ever since the split of society into classes.

However, in the linear progression of man, capitalism is beautiful. It involved billion(s) more into the labour process, it abolished absolutist/feudal systems of governance. It, at least on paper, claims to provide us with equal right under law (or "under god") and thus in its introduction of competitive capitalism came to Europe and other countries (where it was not directly forced) as a liberator of nations.

Capitalism in its original form doesn't exist here anymore, however. Capitalism once advocated and practiced competition between producing forces. However competition can only exist for so long before it is replaced by monopoly.

Capitalism has been replaced by monopoly capitalism/imperialism since. Where competition once existed, it has been replaced my monopoly (monopoly and state also collaborate on many disgustingly profitable industries such as the military industrial complex and the prison industrial complex). We no longer have competing industries; hell, Coke and Pepsi are managed by the same bank, and they both receive funding for the fall of either one is equally unprofitable to the bank directors which run both. Furthermore, we have politicians, members of government and board directors who are tied to shady practices here and abroad (Iran-Contra scandal, immunity for cocaine distributors in ghetto communities).

Their position can not be overthrown through the system - they've already secured their position all finances continue to circulate back to them as they have their hands in not one industry, but just about every important one.

The only way is to overthrow our own subjugation is to overthrow them from the pinnacle of their hierarchy and make them equals. Remove their amassed wealth and give it back to the people they exploited it from. We abolish class oppression by abolishing classes.

The ideology of Marxism shows us that communism is not something that can be brought immediately after capitalism. Rather, an interim state must exist as a segue between the two. This segue we call socialism, where the means of production are entrusted by the state of democratically elected officials who then create a centrally planned economy where matters of housing, economy, wealth distribution and employment can become fully sustainable.

Once international revolution has defeated international capitalism, this is when we can begin to see the negation of socialist forces of production and a communist revolution may come to take its place.

That is not to say that communism is a form of utopia. There are internal contradictions which will exist, surely, and which may/will even come to negate communism. However I say all this optimistically for it is a long line in the progression of humankind.

Sense-A, you are downright silly if you think capitalism is the end of human beings. Many more systems have come only to be swept into the dustbin of history by a more advanced system of production which overwhelmed it with larger relation/productivity to labour. Capitalism will also come to meet the dustbin, don't be surprised. Definitely not in our lifetime, but we are seeing a lot of the precursors.

All power to the people.

(PS: You name Castro and Stalin when you speak of communism? Please. You should know by now no communist believes in any dictatorship but that of the entire proletariat)

I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. You say that "Capitalism was beautiful until it became a monopoly." I'm pretty sure there aren't monopolies in America. There are oligopolistic markets, like the Automotive Industry, where the start up costs are so great that it's very difficult to finance a new automotive company and most of the money and product is within a handful of companies. However, they aren't stopping you, they just aren't going to hand it to you.

Then you name drop the Iran Contra scandal, which has no bearing on Capitalism at all. Communists would do the same thing. Are you telling me the Soviets didn't sell guns to China and North Korea? That the Chinese became so enslaved to Stalin's authority that all he had to do was say "You will invade" and they commit a million men to the Korean peninsula and turn what would have been a quick liberation into a several year long trench war? The Chinese lost 150,000 men killed and almost 400,000 wounded because Stalin said jump. That's how communism works. Communism is the destruction of Individualism. One man can set in motion everything, because no one can speak against them.

You act like it's immoral for some people to have more then others when they worked for it or inherited it. This is what would happen with wealth distribution:

The rich are killed and their goods are divided equally among the poor.
The poor are no longer poor. Much rejoicing.
Some people manage to accumulate great wealth.
They are the new evil rich.
The rich are killed and their goods are divided equally among the poor.
The poor are no longer poor. Much rejoicing...

Why can't you just struggle to the top? Or play the dice right? Why should the rich give you something they deserve and you don't yet?

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

Apparently you don't believe in nature either, there is nothing 'natural' about the concept of rights (because it is only a conception).

What criteria distinguishes your rights from privileges?

If a spider captures and eats a fly does the fly have its right to 'survive and prosper'. I would say no, it has lost its right, and the spider has gained its right to kill it. If I am enslaved, do I have the right to make my own choices? Haven't I lost that right and hasn't my master gained the right to own me?


'Right' is just a semantic concept, it is a statement of aspiration of any given being.

It is a subjective posing as an objective.

I have a right to healthcare = I want healthcare
I have a right to freedom = I want freedom


Rights are ensured only by the power behind the aspiration making it true, OR by another being recognizing the right and making true, but NOT by the statement or aspiration in itself.


You don't have the right to anything, unless you forge that right into being.

That's nature.

Both capitalism and communism work with these discourse of rights, only that communism tells more lies, and capitalism is inconsistent with its use.

No, both hungry animals have a right to live. The Spider has a right to eat the fly to survive. The Fly has a right to not get eaten. When both sides battle it out, one succeeds and one loses. This is why it's okay for me to eat a cow. My own survival comes before their survival, and their survival comes before my survival on their side.

If I needed to kill a man to survive, I am justified. If I kill a man without that due cause I am not justified. My rights will trump all other rights. Their rights will trump all other rights. Thus they are equal. In ultimate form, power is it's own legality. But we're talking about human civilization.

It's natural that it's unfair for me to take your possessions, and natural for you to break the law when you deprive me of mine. Thus we cannot take property by force, we have to agree for it with a trade. Thus capitalism is law. Economics is only legal and fair when we both agree to make a trade. I will give you 10 dollars for your hat. I propose terms of agreement. You may now choose to agree or disagree. If you agree you will receive ten dollars and i will receive your hat. I did not take your hat, you gave it to me. You did not take my money, I gave it to you.

[communist cunt]

edit

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

If you justify your beliefs that quasi capitalist dictators will arise from capitalist democracies (and communist ones apparently), why not just embrace the possibility that a hierarchal society is the natural state of things?

I mean the Feudal age happened for a reason. Is a King so unnatural? Because there have been kings in every great civilization (except America, though we do have and always have had nobles). Governments change, but there are always classes. It's only a bad thing when you can't rise through the classes.

Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. - Winston Churchill, 1947.

Capitalist Democracy doesn't actually work well, but nothing else even comes close to it.

[Visionz]

If you justify your beliefs that quasi capitalist dictators will arise from capitalist democracies (and communist ones apparently), why not just embrace the possibility that a hierarchal society is the natural state of things?

I mean the Feudal age happened for a reason. Is a King so unnatural? Because there have been kings in every great civilization (except America, though we do have and always have had nobles). Governments change, but there are always classes. It's only a bad thing when you can't rise through the classes.

Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time. - Winston Churchill, 1947.

Capitalist Democracy doesn't actually work well, but nothing else even comes close to it.

the mindset in this threads seems to say that we shouldn't strive to move towards something better. That I don't understand.

As it has been pointed out already, Capitalism in its purest form ventures towards moral insanity in the name of the bottom line.

Child-labor laws, worker's rights, overtime pay, etc none of these things are Capitalist ideas or ideals. Rather, they are amendments to an idea that is certainly not perfect and which has a tendency to spin out of control if left unchecked and to its own devices.

If you can't be realistic in confronting the problems of a structure then things can never move forward. I'm going to introduce some very real problems within the capitalist framework here in America and then maybe we can go from there. And anyone reading this please do not come at me with the "vote and boycott" as a solution. Plain and simple, its not and these problems are far too big to be dealt with by piecemeal resolution.


Problems:

The co-mingling of corporations and politics is a problem.----Dollars in the pockets of shitty politicians that in turn make decisions based on personal economics and political survival negatively effects this country in almost innumerable ways. Politicians should be able to do their job in good conscience based upon sound logic. That is not how our current governmental atmosphere functions and that is a problem.



The growing divide between rich and poor coupled with a shrinking middle class is a major problem. A CEO that lays off thousands of people and then gets a bonus that equates closely to their collective salary is disgusting. Being a CEO is not an easy job and I'm not trying to pretend that it is, nor that a person should not be well-compensated for all the stress and demands that come with that position. However, because a single worker can be easily replaced there is a trend for a company's management to not fully appreciate their workers as a whole. GMC could have a fabulous and brilliant CEO but if there's not a single person willing to turn bolts in a factory to produce cars all his brilliance wouldn't amount to a can full of shit. The symbiotic relationship that should exist between all employers and employees has not been realized in America and that is a problem.




I've got more but I"m getting tired so I'll leave it at that for now.

[Clan Destine]

No, both hungry animals have a right to live. The Spider has a right to eat the fly to survive. The Fly has a right to not get eaten. When both sides battle it out, one succeeds and one loses. This is why it's okay for me to eat a cow. My own survival comes before their survival, and their survival comes before my survival on their side.

If the fly loses does its right not to get eaten exist? Did it ever exist?

Why bother with the concept 'right'. Why not just talk about what happens?

Sometimes spiders eat flies, sometimes flies get away.

You don't need to eat a cow for survival, you can subsist off cheaper, less violent foods. Is eating a cow then not a privilege?

You didn't explicitly answer my question on how you distinguish rights from privileges. Or what basis you have for making 'survival' etc. a right.

If I needed to kill a man to survive, I am justified. If I kill a man without that due cause I am not justified. My rights will trump all other rights. Their rights will trump all other rights. Thus they are equal. In ultimate form, power is it's own legality. But we're talking about human civilization.

Due cause according to whom? If I can kill a man for whatever reason, I have taken the right to do it, and he has lost the right to live. To deny this, to say he still has the right to live when he is clearly dead, is absurd, or at the very least ANTI-NATURAL, because it contradicts what is real. If some other person or group of people imprison me for the killing, they have taken the right of my incarceration. That is the only 'difference' of human civilization, that and the fact that we 'believe' in rights as a true metaphysical layer. Civilization is always based on power and the threat of it, do not get it twisted,

It's natural that it's unfair for me to take your possessions, and natural for you to break the law when you deprive me of mine. Thus we cannot take property by force, we have to agree for it with a trade. Thus capitalism is law. Economics is only legal and fair when we both agree to make a trade. I will give you 10 dollars for your hat. I propose terms of agreement. You may now choose to agree or disagree. If you agree you will receive ten dollars and i will receive your hat. I did not take your hat, you gave it to me. You did not take my money, I gave it to you.

Your'e naturalizing your own values here.

A man does not respect your law. He has a different set of unshakable values and personal laws. He takes your possessions because he believes he has a right to them. How are you going to argue with him that he doesn't have the right to when he now has your hat? He believes what has happened was legal and fair. How are you going to convince him otherwise? What are you going to appeal to?

Nature? Nature just happened to you.

[Frank Sobotka]

I agree that both do not work in their extremes.

But I disagree that I'm confusing communism and dictatorship. I know the difference. The thing is, that when you live under the rule of communism, you are not allowed to oppose the political party in control. Therefore you have no political freedom. Now I think that Visionz pointed out that a watered down communist country such as his example of Yugoslavia may allow political opposition, but the traditional idea of communism does not tolerate political dissent at all.

Cuba is communist. Castro is their dictator.

North Korea is communist. Kim II Sung is their dictator.

The Soviet Union was communist. Stalin was their dictator.

You see, communism opens up the window for dictators to easily obtain and maintain power. So they both sort of go hand in hand whether you like to admit it or not. History tells us this.

But communism and capitalism are more-so how economies are setup. A dictatorship is a form of government. We can get into a discussion on forms and setups of governments if you want. But it might be better suited for a separate thread.

And P2P, i have a rebuttal for you but I'll save it for tonight when I get home and finished working for my EVIL CAPITALIST employer that is whipping me as i'm on the clock getting paid to post on WuCorp right now. Oh boy he just put the Friday paycheck on my desk. The oppression! I can't take it!

watered down communist...not an extreme, worked!

The way these countries become communists opens up the window for dictators.
They achieve their goal by revolution with force which means Men of Military will have the power first, and power corrupts. These dictatorships are not exclusive to communism.
And considering socialists want to achieve their vision threw government no dictator will arise.

[Sense-A]

What sort of CONFLICT do you see in America? Where is the oppression from the Bourgeoisie? Because when I look around i see everyone with a house, car, cellphone, new sneakers, watches, chains, nice clothes, stereos, electricity, water, big screen tv's, full refrigerators full of food, big flashy shiny rims, etc. etc.

Even the most fucking lazy poor uneducated assholes in this society have all the necessities they need and their children have a good opportunity to be even more successful than their parents. You can buy a fucking cheeseburger for a $1. That is what someone on minimum wage makes in less than 10 minutes of labor. Come on man. Where is the oppression?

If you are willing to tear down everything we've already accomplished in the United States for more, I ask why? How do you expect that your life is going to be so much better? Who gives a fuck if the CEO of a company gets a fat fucking bonus at the end of the year. I bet the CEO could do your job but YOU could NOT do the CEO's job. You wouldn't be able to sit in the hot seat and take on the responsibility of running a company with a $1billion plus market cap. You probably couldn't even sell weed for a profit you dorks. YOU are the one being envious and greedy. Because you look around and see a couple people more successful than you are, and your KNEE-JERK reaction is to just start a revolution and destroy the whole fucking system that our forefathers ingeniously thought up after years and years of debate and studying the success of similar governments and ideas in Europe.

I want to know what my standard of living is going to be under communism. It will be shit. Even if you COULD convince me that my standard of living would slightly go up if we just raided on the corporations and distributed everything, I am quite sure it would not last very long. The fact is that you can already own a fair share of corporations. Share prices are fucking cheap. You could have bought shares for the biggest banks in this country for less than $2 during the 2008 economic stock crash. But you probably bought a pack of blunts instead. I passively made THOUSANDS on the stock market last year just based off of what I learned about finance and accounting in College. All I had to do was spend my income on stocks instead of beer. OH THE OPPRESSION!!!

Our form of government and capitalism in the USA is such a wild fucking roaring success that it just makes you mad doesn't it? The evil white guys thought up of a brilliant government with division of powers between three branches and also divided up between federal state and local to prevent too much centralization and that just pisses you off because you still have to work 40 hours a week at your easy fucking job where you spend half the time hitting on your co-workers and playing on your cell phone anyways. Give me a break. You probably don't even make your employer money. You are probably more of an expense than a revenue generator but he keeps you on the payroll anyways because he doesn't want to pay your fucking unemployment checks.

Our system is wonderful. The only thing broken is your attitude. Your piss poor "give me give me" attitude where everything in life should just be handed to you and your hatred of others who have more than you. A bunch of crabs-in-the-bucket wannabe marxist faggots who can't compete because they are mentally retarded and too lazy to go to college or do manual labor for an easy 40 hours a week.

A guy like me with a college education, flawless work history, good references from every employer i've ever worked for, has absolutely NO trouble finding work and maintaining a decent standard of life here with my own house, 2 cars, stereos, wu tang music, tvs, nice clothes, etc. etc. How are you going to convince me to give all this up when I already see that my hard work is paying off? I happily pay my property taxes and my sales taxes and my income taxes because what i get from society in return for that money is roads, libraries, parks, fire departments, police departments busting up crackheads like you going through my trash can at night, electricity plants, water mains delivering fresh clean water right up to my house, trash pick-up, etc. etc.

I can see that my hard work is rewarded in America. That is a dream. Because I am not afraid of hard work. 40 hours a week is easy for me. I'm willing to work 60 hours a week if that means I can get ahead of the competition and afford something extra on the side such as a nice vacation or the newest wu tang releases.

In communism, that individuality goes away. I work the same as everyone else and the whole idea of getting ahead goes away. I don't get the newest wu tang release unless the commies approved of its message and decided to mass produce one wu tang cd for every single citizen. Everyone gets their little piss poor ration and thats it. The government tells you how many kids you are allowed to have. Or else they don't, and i just go have a couple dozen kids anyways because the government is going to pay for them, not me. That is ridiculous. There are so many holes and gaps and irrational ideas woven into communism it is funny that people still take it seriously in 2010 after over a century of communist failures happening again and again around the world. Meanwhile, after the dust settles more and more and more countries are finally realizing that maybe they should try modeling their governments and their economies after America and it is working for them so far until another angry upset Communist comes along and tries fucking everything up again.

I don't believe in giving up freedom for a better sense of security. I'd rather have ALL MY FREEDOM with no protection and no safety net such as an unemployment check in case i lose my job, or a welfare check in case i'm an unskilled bum who can't show up to work on time, or social security in case i'm too stupid to save up for my own retirement, etc. All these things are socialist ideas that we had no choice except to implement because most of the population are fucking idiots because stupid people breed faster than smart people because they don't consider the burden of supporting their children before they're sucking dicks behind the picket fence. What is so scary about the idea of self-responsibility? What is scary is that half you lazy spoiled assholes couldn't survive in a completely FREE society where the rest of the taxpayers didn't have to foot the bill for your dozen kids that you had out of wedlock. And where's the father? Not enough of a man to marry the mother of his kids because the socialist portion of government will take care of them instead. The more socialist and communist this country becomes the more the family unit keeps falling apart. Now a wife doesn't need to make her marriage work with her husband because if the husband leaves then the government will just step in and the American Taxpayers will replace him as a source of income. It's wrong. it is redistribution of wealth. Each person deserves only what they have earned, and nothing more. If you aren't willing to EARN what you want, then you never deserved it in the first place. If you are just going to be a whining bitch because the Corporate CEO of Pepsi or Coca-Cola is making more money than you, then i don't know how to dry your tears. Why don't you just change your piss-poor attitude and work for one of those two companies and make a good impression on management and work your way up instead of just complaining why you didn't go from ZERO to HERO overnight. It takes HARD WORK, COMMITMENT, LOYALTY, and a POSITIVE ATTITUDE to get ahead in this country. And those are all good qualities if you ask me. For the fortunate of us with good parents, we are taught these righteous values at an early age. For the others of you who were spoiled your whole life, the day you're 23 and your mom asks you to move out of her basement, the reality of life is too scary for you and you decide that communism is your only escape so you cuddle the communist manifesto at night in your FREE section 8 housing with free electricity and free water paid for and supplied by the hard-working American taxpayers. Crying about having to go to work on a monday at 9am and work a measly 8 hours during which you practically accomplish nothing for your company anyways as you just milk the fucking clock and text message ugly hoes on your phone all day.

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

I don't think these guys realize that an absolute monarch with unlimited powers and total psychosis still runs a country better then a communist state.

I've been drawing up a basic framework for a meritocratic government. These guys would hate it, because it's suggestive of a constitutional monarchy in it's formation.

I have 4(5) classes with several tiers of power in each. But they are all earned by the person. As a result they gain titles and proper address worthy of their accomplishments. No one is disrespected, but some are respected more then others. Has nothing to do with income, but everything to do with what jobs they can carry out (so thus effects income to an extent)

My Four (Five) Classes are:

4 Royalty: Aristocrats
-King: Supreme Magistrate who have worked their way up the ladder [Administrator, not a legislator] (His/Her Majesty) (President)

3 Patricians: Magistrates
-Duke: Someone with full Plebian Education and full Equestrian Service plus more experience (His/Her Highness) (qualified to serve as Governor etc.)
-Count: Someone with full Plebian Education and full Equestrian Service plus experience (His/Her Honor) (Judge, County Prefect...)
-Viscount: Someone with full Plebian Education and full Equestrian Service (His/Her Excellence) (Mayor...)

2 Equestrians: Public Servants
-Centurion: Someone with a senior military commission or medium office (His Lordship/Her Ladyship) (Captain/Major)
-Option: Someone with a veteran military commission or intermediate office (Sir/Dame) (Lieutenant)
-Equestrian: Someone with a military commission or low office (addressed Sir/Dame) (Ensign)

2 Plebians: Educated People
-Tribune: Someone with a PHD (Addressed as Esquire) (Dr, Professor...)
-Aedile: Someone with a masters degree (addressed as Mr./Mrs.) (Attorney, Engineer...)
-Plebian- Someone with a bachelors degree (bear the title of Page) (Businessman, etc.)

1 Proletariat: Common Folk
-Yeoman- Someone with an associates degree and/or a trade (Plumber, Farmer, Policeman)
-Proletarian- Someone without higher education or public service (High School Diploma)

[Visionz]

What sort of CONFLICT do you see in America? Where is the oppression from the Bourgeoisie? Because when I look around i see everyone with a house, car, cellphone, new sneakers, watches, chains, nice clothes, stereos, electricity, water, big screen tv's, full refrigerators full of food, big flashy shiny rims, etc. etc.

Even the most fucking lazy poor uneducated assholes in this society have all the necessities they need and their children have a good opportunity to be even more successful than their parents. You can buy a fucking cheeseburger for a $1. That is what someone on minimum wage makes in less than 10 minutes of labor. Come on man. Where is the oppression?

If you are willing to tear down everything we've already accomplished in the United States for more, I ask why? How do you expect that your life is going to be so much better? Who gives a fuck if the CEO of a company gets a fat fucking bonus at the end of the year. I bet the CEO could do your job but YOU could NOT do the CEO's job. You wouldn't be able to sit in the hot seat and take on the responsibility of running a company with a $1billion plus market cap. You probably couldn't even sell weed for a profit you dorks. YOU are the one being envious and greedy. Because you look around and see a couple people more successful than you are, and your KNEE-JERK reaction is to just start a revolution and destroy the whole fucking system that our forefathers ingeniously thought up after years and years of debate and studying the success of similar governments and ideas in Europe.

I want to know what my standard of living is going to be under communism. It will be shit. Even if you COULD convince me that my standard of living would slightly go up if we just raided on the corporations and distributed everything, I am quite sure it would not last very long. The fact is that you can already own a fair share of corporations. Share prices are fucking cheap. You could have bought shares for the biggest banks in this country for less than $2 during the 2008 economic stock crash. But you probably bought a pack of blunts instead. I passively made THOUSANDS on the stock market last year just based off of what I learned about finance and accounting in College. All I had to do was spend my income on stocks instead of beer. OH THE OPPRESSION!!!

Our form of government and capitalism in the USA is such a wild fucking roaring success that it just makes you mad doesn't it? The evil white guys thought up of a brilliant government with division of powers between three branches and also divided up between federal state and local to prevent too much centralization and that just pisses you off because you still have to work 40 hours a week at your easy fucking job where you spend half the time hitting on your co-workers and playing on your cell phone anyways. Give me a break. You probably don't even make your employer money. You are probably more of an expense than a revenue generator but he keeps you on the payroll anyways because he doesn't want to pay your fucking unemployment checks.

Our system is wonderful. The only thing broken is your attitude. Your piss poor "give me give me" attitude where everything in life should just be handed to you and your hatred of others who have more than you. A bunch of crabs-in-the-bucket wannabe marxist faggots who can't compete because they are mentally retarded and too lazy to go to college or do manual labor for an easy 40 hours a week.

A guy like me with a college education, flawless work history, good references from every employer i've ever worked for, has absolutely NO trouble finding work and maintaining a decent standard of life here with my own house, 2 cars, stereos, wu tang music, tvs, nice clothes, etc. etc. How are you going to convince me to give all this up when I already see that my hard work is paying off? I happily pay my property taxes and my sales taxes and my income taxes because what i get from society in return for that money is roads, libraries, parks, fire departments, police departments busting up crackheads like you going through my trash can at night, electricity plants, water mains delivering fresh clean water right up to my house, trash pick-up, etc. etc.

I can see that my hard work is rewarded in America. That is a dream. Because I am not afraid of hard work. 40 hours a week is easy for me. I'm willing to work 60 hours a week if that means I can get ahead of the competition and afford something extra on the side such as a nice vacation or the newest wu tang releases.

In communism, that individuality goes away. I work the same as everyone else and the whole idea of getting ahead goes away. I don't get the newest wu tang release unless the commies approved of its message and decided to mass produce one wu tang cd for every single citizen. Everyone gets their little piss poor ration and thats it. The government tells you how many kids you are allowed to have. Or else they don't, and i just go have a couple dozen kids anyways because the government is going to pay for them, not me. That is ridiculous. There are so many holes and gaps and irrational ideas woven into communism it is funny that people still take it seriously in 2010 after over a century of communist failures happening again and again around the world. Meanwhile, after the dust settles more and more and more countries are finally realizing that maybe they should try modeling their governments and their economies after America and it is working for them so far until another angry upset Communist comes along and tries fucking everything up again.

I don't believe in giving up freedom for a better sense of security. I'd rather have ALL MY FREEDOM with no protection and no safety net such as an unemployment check in case i lose my job, or a welfare check in case i'm an unskilled bum who can't show up to work on time, or social security in case i'm too stupid to save up for my own retirement, etc. All these things are socialist ideas that we had no choice except to implement because most of the population are fucking idiots because stupid people breed faster than smart people because they don't consider the burden of supporting their children before they're sucking dicks behind the picket fence. What is so scary about the idea of self-responsibility? What is scary is that half you lazy spoiled assholes couldn't survive in a completely FREE society where the rest of the taxpayers didn't have to foot the bill for your dozen kids that you had out of wedlock. And where's the father? Not enough of a man to marry the mother of his kids because the socialist portion of government will take care of them instead. The more socialist and communist this country becomes the more the family unit keeps falling apart. Now a wife doesn't need to make her marriage work with her husband because if the husband leaves then the government will just step in and the American Taxpayers will replace him as a source of income. It's wrong. it is redistribution of wealth. Each person deserves only what they have earned, and nothing more. If you aren't willing to EARN what you want, then you never deserved it in the first place. If you are just going to be a whining bitch because the Corporate CEO of Pepsi or Coca-Cola is making more money than you, then i don't know how to dry your tears. Why don't you just change your piss-poor attitude and work for one of those two companies and make a good impression on management and work your way up instead of just complaining why you didn't go from ZERO to HERO overnight. It takes HARD WORK, COMMITMENT, LOYALTY, and a POSITIVE ATTITUDE to get ahead in this country. And those are all good qualities if you ask me. For the fortunate of us with good parents, we are taught these righteous values at an early age. For the others of you who were spoiled your whole life, the day you're 23 and your mom asks you to move out of her basement, the reality of life is too scary for you and you decide that communism is your only escape so you cuddle the communist manifesto at night in your FREE section 8 housing with free electricity and free water paid for and supplied by the hard-working American taxpayers. Crying about having to go to work on a monday at 9am and work a measly 8 hours during which you practically accomplish nothing for your company anyways as you just milk the fucking clock and text message ugly hoes on your phone all day.

e
You sound angry and judgmental. You extoll the virtues of capitalism but get irrate when it comes to discussing its flaws. In a truly free market, you'd have a five year old working in a sweat shop. Are you ok with that as well?

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

Why is a child exempt from contributing? Is it because they aren't smart enough yet? The retarded have the minds of children and still work. Is it because they're too small? Do little people not have to work? Are they not too small? Are they too young? What does that even matter.

I'm sure a five year old is big enough to clean the machine in Stalinist Russia. I doubt Communism cares from whence the blood flows.

"A million deaths is just a statistic" -Joseph Stalin

If a five year old can do something productive why stop them. What parent would let their five year old work? Who's the evil person? The Company or the parent. Child Labor has nothing to do with Capitalism, it's about the legal responsibilities of parent to child. That's not an economic issue, that's a social concern.

[communist cunt]

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[Visionz]

Why is a child exempt from contributing? Is it because they aren't smart enough yet? The retarded have the minds of children and still work. Is it because they're too small? Do little people not have to work? Are they not too small? Are they too young? What does that even matter.

I'm sure a five year old is big enough to clean the machine in Stalinist Russia. I doubt Communism cares from whence the blood flows.

"A million deaths is just a statistic" -Joseph Stalin

If a five year old can do something productive why stop them. What parent would let their five year old work? Who's the evil person? The Company or the parent. Child Labor has nothing to do with Capitalism, it's about the legal responsibilities of parent to child. That's not an economic issue, that's a social concern.

children working in factories was a reality that happened here in the US and stands as an example of what can happen in a free market with no restrictions. It's not surprising that you're trying to apply logic to justify the practice but logic without humanity can lead to very illogical situations. You just tryed to justify a five year old doing factory work.

Following your same course of logic, a guy that likes fucking midgets should also be able to have sex with kindergarterers. The fact that it has to be explained to you why one is just as sick and preverse as other means you should be slapping your parents next time you get a chance.

There is no economic issue that is not a social issue, they are inextricably woven together with the shape of one determining another. The great life many enjoy here is owed to american capitalism. I don't deny that and anyone who thinks I am doesn't understand my position. I simply see room for improvment and don't think that just because we have it good doesn't mean we shouldn't be striving for better.

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

A five year old can't work because it can't consent to working. Thus it's an abuse of the capital system. Capitalism is about exchanging wealth voluntarily.

I'm fully aware about the 19th century. Children worked in the mills. I know that. They worked on the farms. They worked because it was socially acceptable for them to do so. Everyone pulled their weight in the 19th century. Who pulls their weight now?

So if a man wanted to have sex with a midget, the midget had better consent or it breaks rule one of capitalism, make your own choices.

If that same man wanted to have sex with a child, if the child could legally consent there'd be no issue.

The age of consent is mid to late teens. Younger then that, not legal.

You act as though I'm advocating an anarcho-capitalist state.

[Visionz]

A five year old can't work because it can't consent to working. Thus it's an abuse of the capital system. Capitalism is about exchanging wealth voluntarily.

I'm fully aware about the 19th century. Children worked in the mills. I know that. They worked on the farms. They worked because it was socially acceptable for them to do so. Everyone pulled their weight in the 19th century. Who pulls their weight now?

So if a man wanted to have sex with a midget, the midget had better consent or it breaks rule one of capitalism, make your own choices.

If that same man wanted to have sex with a child, if the child could legally consent there'd be no issue.

The age of consent is mid to late teens. Younger then that, not legal.

You act as though I'm advocating an anarcho-capitalist state.

my point is that if markets are left completely free to do as they choose without the intervention of government, then the abuse you speak of becomes widespread. Child labor didn't die in the 19th century it just got shipped overseas granted often times to a communist country (but not exclusively) but the fact remains that it's occurrence is driven by capitalist markets seeking the cheapest labor possible.