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Thread: Should New York have cleared the way for a mosque to be built near the World Trade Ce

  1. #16
    כהן גדול TheBoarzHeadBoy's Avatar
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    When she was running as VP I felt bad for her being twisted around and shit, but she is still saying stupid shit like two years later. At this point I think she's ignorant if not dumb, but other then in the eyes of the left she's no longer relevant. She's a good fundraiser and she's never going to be president. Its just that Fox is so defensive of her, I know she's a contributor and they stand by her message but they treat her like she's relevant.

    Shes not. She's effectively dead as a politician. I can't stand the news anymore. Every station is blatantly biased to the point its almost hilarious. I'm just scared of all the Nineteen-eighty-four shit coming our way. Perhaps if I stopped watching the news I'd probably be less worried but I don't know if that's a good thing. The worst thing is that there is a conspiracy going on, not a "Palehorse Level Conspiracy" but there's definitely some sort of Socialist (I can't tell yet if its Communist or Fascist the rhetoric is similar) gears turning behind the scenes.

    From where I sit I think Bush was paving a path to hell with good intentions, I think Obama is doing it intentionally.
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    כהן גדול TheBoarzHeadBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post
    hahah these creatures do not exist.

    I am definitely not social liberal. I do not believe that the government should interfere with citizens' lives as much as social liberals do. too many social services and control over economic policy is more harmful than it is helpful in the long run. Merely my opinion of course.

    I guess I am probably more libertarian than I like to admit.

    I like to think that American Liberalism is not a political ideology so much as it is a mental disorder.
    I meant classical liberals as in Gay people are people too (marriage should be left to the churches to decide the state shouldn't need to recognize marriage anyway) women can votes, blacks have equal rights. Not give them the wealth progressive "liberals." Liberal as in lover of freedom. The original meaning. The All Men are created Equal liberals. Libertarian is just the word they have to use because the progressives hijacked the term liberal. The founding fathers were Liberals. They were also radicals in that they shook things up. But if you say Radical Liberals now its clearly not our founding fathers being spoken of.
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    כהן גדול TheBoarzHeadBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by food for thought View Post
    i donot believe the official story that your governments tells us about 9/11. I dont believe a bunch of arabs hated you for your freedom and they planned in a cave how to hijack an airplane and attack the white house and pentagon and the US government had no idea this was going to happen. i dont think that is possible. I dont know the whole story but i know there are alot of inconsistencies with the official story and credible questions that are not answered concerning that day. and dumb ass americans, yes folks!!, dont care or dont know.





    http://www.911truth.org/article.php?...41221155307646


    do you care about any of this info? dont u think it matters? or do you think they are jsut conspiracy theories?

    i think theres some christians responsible for some of that shit. dont you?

    and why dont the dumb ass americans demand answers for these crucial questions?

    nah bro. lets just profile and discriminate against every muslim in the world. casue mohammed atta hated us for our freedom and attacked us from the cave bro. and osama and saddam hussein.



    ok i did a little research. yes it apprently is a $100 million project. but its a fucking community center. its not just a mosque. it just happens to have a mosque in it



    so its not a $100 million mosque. ( i knew that sounded ridiculous) its a $100 million community center. blowing things out of proportion as usual.







    lol bullshit. this thread, the website linked here, amongst other things, proves this to be the opposite.

    tolerant my ass. more like racist as fuck.
    Fair points. It is a community center with a mosque in it. But the point is that doesn't change opinions since Sense A and I were okay with a mosque.

    Looking for a conspiracy in 911 is crazy because obviously there was a conspiracy. A group of terrorists with a wide ranging organization throughout the world and a lot of bank role and men pulled off a devastating attack worthy of an entire country planning a sneak attack. Pearl Harbor was the same scenario. A ton of things went wrong which is why the attack happened. Japan didn't get the message through that they were declaring war until afterwards because of an oversight. The whitehouse knew an attack was coming because the Japanese fleet was effectively missing (deployed somewhere) and they knew that Pearl Harbor was on a list of possible targets. However they didn't put everyone on alert because the situation with Japan was fragile and we didn't want to look belligerent while we were constantly being assured Japan didn't want war. Then when the Radar operators saw a bunch of objects on the map that shouldn't be there some idiot on the receiving end said it couldn't possibly be the Japs and that it must be friendlies that he hadn't been briefed on.

    Point is it take a lot of slip ups for 3000 Americans to get killed by foreigners. But it happens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by food for thought View Post
    yes why not?

    its a fucking place of worship.

    i was watching the god Cornel West on real time with bill maher and he said something like " if they can have strip clubs and porn shops right around the block(apparently they really do) then they should be permitted to have a mosque there"

    fucking scary ass racist ass people i cant stand teh shit
    co-sign this for accurateness
    "get money by all means necessary"

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    Quote Originally Posted by LONDON! View Post
    co-sign this for accurateness
    Any American who deserves the name American would want them to build there. If anything its a shining symbol of peace. It says "Terrorists who associated with this view may have killed Americans but America is above petty criminals who claim do the work of prophets."

    Anyone who's making a fuss is a jingoistic boob.

    Its the same idiocy when people hate on Germans because they were Nazis. There are less Nazis in Germany then in America. Hell there are probably more Nazis in America now then there were in 1942 Germany.
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    ^^
    I'd rep you if I could.

    By the way, a couple posts up you were talking about the socialist conspiracy you believe America is currently apart of. Would you mind giving the people some evidence to support this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy View Post
    Any American who deserves the name American would want them to build there. If anything its a shining symbol of peace. It says "Terrorists who associated with this view may have killed Americans but America is above petty criminals who claim do the work of prophets."

    Anyone who's making a fuss is a jingoistic boob.

    Its the same idiocy when people hate on Germans because they were Nazis. There are less Nazis in Germany then in America. Hell there are probably more Nazis in America now then there were in 1942 Germany.
    thats the 100% truth
    "get money by all means necessary"

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy View Post
    I meant classical liberals as in Gay people are people too (marriage should be left to the churches to decide the state shouldn't need to recognize marriage anyway) women can votes, blacks have equal rights. Not give them the wealth progressive "liberals." Liberal as in lover of freedom. The original meaning. The All Men are created Equal liberals. Libertarian is just the word they have to use because the progressives hijacked the term liberal. The founding fathers were Liberals. They were also radicals in that they shook things up. But if you say Radical Liberals now its clearly not our founding fathers being spoken of.
    Thank you for clearing this up. The word "liberal" used to describe political ideology has changed a lot during the last 200 years in this country. Not only does it mean different things in the USA depending on what era you are discussing, it also has varying definitions in other countries.

    My personal generalized hatred of liberals is directed towards the modern followers. far left Demoncrats who I believe are far worse than Republicans. Both parties suck though and have negative effects. Republicans are bad. Demoncrats are even worse. That is my opinion.

    By the way, a couple posts up you were talking about the socialist conspiracy you believe America is currently apart of. Would you mind giving the people some evidence to support this?
    I can't speak for TheBoarzHead but I'd like to explain what I think about the socialist conspiracy.

    The socialist conspiracy to me is the idea that there are people in power in the world with great international political influence who'd like to establish a world socialist government.

    "A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing in its evil influence and control over America and the entire world."
    -- Ezra Taft Benson
    LDS General Conference, October 1988
    (Ensign, Nov. 1988, p. 87.)


    "In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."
    --Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Sec. of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.


    Even though George W Bush and Barack Obama are supposedly 2 separate opposing parties, one could argue that in fact they are not. They are actually quite similar if not nearly the same. Bush almost doubled our country's national debt. But most Republicans are fiscally conservative!! So far Obama is racking up debt as well. Bush implemented the patriot act giving the government broad powers to spy on its own citizens. Demoncrats openly ridiculed the patriot act during their campaigning, but once they won office they extended the Patriot Act. WTF? Bush gets us into two concurrent wars. Demoncrats criticize him and demand that we withdraw. Demoncrats later get elected into office, and what do they do, they prolong the wars and send in more troops. WTF? Both GWB and Obama have been centralizing power. That is making the federal government more powerful that the states. When we founded the Constitution over 200 years ago, our forefathers wanted power distributed and balanced between federal and state, not centralized. So centralization of power is certainly a goal of the "Socialist Conspiracy." This centralization of power will become more and more international. There is immense pressure for the USA to adopt progressive laws and policies of OTHER countries. WHY? We are sovereign, so why are we allowing foreign influences to govern our legislation?

    Healthcare reform is certainly a huge example of socialization. Healthcare in America is superb! There wasn't even an emergency to begin with. We also socialized Chevrolet and Chrysler in America, two of the top 3 American automobile manufacturers. They fucked over all the bond holders so they could cater to union workers (a lot of Obama's campaign financing came from unions). What happens when in the future bond holders decide not to invest in companies anymore because the government assists in fucking them over to lose their entire investments? Why should the government have any ownership at all in private companies? You have to be concerned with the conflict of interests. What if government starts legislating in favor of the companies they have a stake in instead of legislating to reflect the democratic will of the people?

    I think the general idea behind all of this is to make people more dependent on government. You sure NEEEEED government if they are they ones manufacturing all the cars, when they are the ones lending student loans, when they are the ones lending money for home purchases, when they are the ones lending you money to start up a business, when they are the ones providing your healthcare, when they are the ones providing your job, your housing, your food, etc. etc. Then they can require you to get a license for everything. License to drive. license to fix someone's roof. License to fix your own house. license to serve food. License for this and that and this and that and approval for this and a stamp of approval for that. You'll need a bureaucrat 24/7 to help you fill out all the forms. You'll have to fill out a form to be allowed to use a public restroom.

    Similar to this idea of dependency is the creation of a welfare state. You create low-level entitlement programs and welfare programs to keep people low class. It is a method of keeping the bar low for a huge mass of people. You breed laziness and complacency into generation after generation. The lower class will blame rich people when it is actually the government fucking them over. The rich people are getting fucked over too because the lower class allows and even demands that the government persecute the rich more and more to the point that the rich are paying half of their livelihoods to the government. The rich people have no majority so the only choice they are left with is trying to get politicians in their pockets because free enterprise has been thrown out the window. Rich people might just flee the country, taking their businesses with them. Then the government will have to step in and begin providing all the jobs. Everyone will work for the government in some form and fashion. All the rich people fled the country for constantly being the scapegoats. You are left with a whole nation of low class citizenship with no means to start up their own businesses, all of whom beg and demand assistance and help from the big wonderful superhero federal government. They will give federal government more and more and more power because they are desperate for help and think the federal government is the only thing that can save them.

    I also believe that there is elitist ownership of our media. Almost every American has a television set, which they watch for hours per day. Almost all the channels are owned by about 6 companies. All the federal and national government news is coming out of one or two sources. All reporting is being filtered through the pentagon. Remember in George Orwell's 1984 he speaks about the "ministry of truth." Well that idea is more fact than fiction. Sure, Fox news might be the one channel that offers a conservative view. Or so we think. Fox news might just be a decoy to offset every other channel that has a clear liberal bias. The news media in this country used to report news story with objectivity. But now every media station is spinning a political take on the news. There is an intention to instill a liberal bias into viewers. Add to that conspiracy the possibility that the liberal socialist conspiracy is even capable of infiltrating its own opposition and posing as their own opposition only to make them publicly discredited. Why argue against your opponent when you can pretend you ARE your opponent and act like an idiot so that your opposing ideology loses all credibility in the public eye? If i hate liberals, I can go to a local liberal protest and hold up a ridiculous racist sign and tell everyone I am a liberal even though I am really a conservative. Get it?

    The rabbit hole goes a lot deeper. Personally, I believe that most Americans who claim to be blatant supporters of the Democratic Party really don't know what they are supporting. Democratic leaders try to tell the people what they are supporting, yet they do the opposite sometimes. They try to create some sort of duality between our only two political parties when both political parties might just be doing the same thing. The liberal socialist conspiracy doesn't want you to pay attention to how they are dismantling the Constitution, so they get you addicted to Hollywood celebrities, sports, game shows, pornography, sitcoms, rap music and bitches and rims, etc. Anything as long as you are not paying close attention to what politicians are doing. And just in case you actually are interested in politics, they'll making C-SPAN so boring that anyone trying to watch it falls asleep in less than 5 minutes. haha

    I'm sure TheBoarzHead might be able to explain it better since i typed too much already.

  10. #25
    Eff Grandad THUGNIFICENT's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot of what you said, largely on the similarities between Bush II and Obama and the government's stake in the stock market and automotive industry. Let me just highlight a few points of what you said there and offer my two cents / further questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post
    Healthcare reform is certainly a huge example of socialization. Healthcare in America is superb! There wasn't even an emergency to begin with.
    Maybe not an emergency for you. But, before healthcare was passed, for every person who died in a terrorist attack globally (1), 58 people in the US died because of a lack of healthcare (2).

    1 - 774.7 per year, according to the US Department of State
    2 - 45k a year, according to Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance

    Similar to this idea of dependency is the creation of a welfare state. You create low-level entitlement programs and welfare programs to keep people low class. It is a method of keeping the bar low for a huge mass of people. You breed laziness and complacency into generation after generation. The lower class will blame rich people when it is actually the government fucking them over. The rich people are getting fucked over too because the lower class allows and even demands that the government persecute the rich more and more to the point that the rich are paying half of their livelihoods to the government. The rich people have no majority so the only choice they are left with is trying to get politicians in their pockets because free enterprise has been thrown out the window. Rich people might just flee the country, taking their businesses with them. Then the government will have to step in and begin providing all the jobs. Everyone will work for the government in some form and fashion. All the rich people fled the country for constantly being the scapegoats. You are left with a whole nation of low class citizenship with no means to start up their own businesses, all of whom beg and demand assistance and help from the big wonderful superhero federal government. They will give federal government more and more and more power because they are desperate for help and think the federal government is the only thing that can save them.
    I'd rather just the abolishment of welfare at the federal level and then let the states run their own independent welfare programs, whether it be nothing or even more than what's currently in place. A lot of people take advantage of welfare, but at the same time there are people who need it, so totally abolishing it would certainly bring those people more hardship. The answer is reform, not abolishment.

    I also believe that there is elitist ownership of our media. Almost every American has a television set, which they watch for hours per day. Almost all the channels are owned by about 6 companies. All the federal and national government news is coming out of one or two sources. All reporting is being filtered through the pentagon. Remember in George Orwell's 1984 he speaks about the "ministry of truth." Well that idea is more fact than fiction. Sure, Fox news might be the one channel that offers a conservative view. Or so we think. Fox news might just be a decoy to offset every other channel that has a clear liberal bias. The news media in this country used to report news story with objectivity. But now every media station is spinning a political take on the news. There is an intention to instill a liberal bias into viewers. Add to that conspiracy the possibility that the liberal socialist conspiracy is even capable of infiltrating its own opposition and posing as their own opposition only to make them publicly discredited. Why argue against your opponent when you can pretend you ARE your opponent and act like an idiot so that your opposing ideology loses all credibility in the public eye? If i hate liberals, I can go to a local liberal protest and hold up a ridiculous racist sign and tell everyone I am a liberal even though I am really a conservative. Get it?
    This is what I was talking about in my original post, and also where I asked for "evidence." Not you stating your opinions and offering nothing to back them up. Get it? And I'm not talking about the elitist ownership; that's pretty common knowledge.

    The rabbit hole goes a lot deeper. Personally, I believe that most Americans who claim to be blatant supporters of the Democratic Party really don't know what they are supporting. Democratic leaders try to tell the people what they are supporting, yet they do the opposite sometimes. They try to create some sort of duality between our only two political parties when both political parties might just be doing the same thing. The liberal socialist conspiracy doesn't want you to pay attention to how they are dismantling the Constitution, so they get you addicted to Hollywood celebrities, sports, game shows, pornography, sitcoms, rap music and bitches and rims, etc. Anything as long as you are not paying close attention to what politicians are doing. And just in case you actually are interested in politics, they'll making C-SPAN so boring that anyone trying to watch it falls asleep in less than 5 minutes. haha
    This is where I leave the boat. I left my tinfoil hat at the cleaners. I don't think that everything on television is a way to distract people from politics; I think that it's certainly what happens a lot of the time, but I don't believe that it was the desired effect. They (the people involved in the creation of the show) just wanted people to watch so they'd get paid.

    Okay I'm out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie Sinclair View Post
    Yea I'm pretty sure it's allowed and in our First Amendment of the Constitution


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom..._United_States
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim T View Post
    Well, to be honest, it does seem pretty tasteless to me.
    Agreed

    The chairman of the Cordoba Initiative (the organisation of this project, named after the Mezquita mosque built in Cordoba as a flag of victory over the Romans) Faisal Abdul Sauf has glorified the acts of 9-11 and said he doesn't believe in inter religious dialogue.

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/ground-...inglepage=true

    Maybe this article will help people understand why it's called Cordoba House.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_C%C3%B3rdoba

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post
    Thank you for clearing this up. The word "liberal" used to describe political ideology has changed a lot during the last 200 years in this country. Not only does it mean different things in the USA depending on what era you are discussing, it also has varying definitions in other countries.

    My personal generalized hatred of liberals is directed towards the modern followers. far left Demoncrats who I believe are far worse than Republicans. Both parties suck though and have negative effects. Republicans are bad. Demoncrats are even worse. That is my opinion.

    I can't speak for TheBoarzHead but I'd like to explain what I think about the socialist conspiracy.

    The socialist conspiracy to me is the idea that there are people in power in the world with great international political influence who'd like to establish a world socialist government.





    Even though George W Bush and Barack Obama are supposedly 2 separate opposing parties, one could argue that in fact they are not. They are actually quite similar if not nearly the same. Bush almost doubled our country's national debt. But most Republicans are fiscally conservative!! So far Obama is racking up debt as well. Bush implemented the patriot act giving the government broad powers to spy on its own citizens. Demoncrats openly ridiculed the patriot act during their campaigning, but once they won office they extended the Patriot Act. WTF? Bush gets us into two concurrent wars. Demoncrats criticize him and demand that we withdraw. Demoncrats later get elected into office, and what do they do, they prolong the wars and send in more troops. WTF? Both GWB and Obama have been centralizing power. That is making the federal government more powerful that the states. When we founded the Constitution over 200 years ago, our forefathers wanted power distributed and balanced between federal and state, not centralized. So centralization of power is certainly a goal of the "Socialist Conspiracy." This centralization of power will become more and more international. There is immense pressure for the USA to adopt progressive laws and policies of OTHER countries. WHY? We are sovereign, so why are we allowing foreign influences to govern our legislation?

    Healthcare reform is certainly a huge example of socialization. Healthcare in America is superb! There wasn't even an emergency to begin with. We also socialized Chevrolet and Chrysler in America, two of the top 3 American automobile manufacturers. They fucked over all the bond holders so they could cater to union workers (a lot of Obama's campaign financing came from unions). What happens when in the future bond holders decide not to invest in companies anymore because the government assists in fucking them over to lose their entire investments? Why should the government have any ownership at all in private companies? You have to be concerned with the conflict of interests. What if government starts legislating in favor of the companies they have a stake in instead of legislating to reflect the democratic will of the people?

    I think the general idea behind all of this is to make people more dependent on government. You sure NEEEEED government if they are they ones manufacturing all the cars, when they are the ones lending student loans, when they are the ones lending money for home purchases, when they are the ones lending you money to start up a business, when they are the ones providing your healthcare, when they are the ones providing your job, your housing, your food, etc. etc. Then they can require you to get a license for everything. License to drive. license to fix someone's roof. License to fix your own house. license to serve food. License for this and that and this and that and approval for this and a stamp of approval for that. You'll need a bureaucrat 24/7 to help you fill out all the forms. You'll have to fill out a form to be allowed to use a public restroom.

    Similar to this idea of dependency is the creation of a welfare state. You create low-level entitlement programs and welfare programs to keep people low class. It is a method of keeping the bar low for a huge mass of people. You breed laziness and complacency into generation after generation. The lower class will blame rich people when it is actually the government fucking them over. The rich people are getting fucked over too because the lower class allows and even demands that the government persecute the rich more and more to the point that the rich are paying half of their livelihoods to the government. The rich people have no majority so the only choice they are left with is trying to get politicians in their pockets because free enterprise has been thrown out the window. Rich people might just flee the country, taking their businesses with them. Then the government will have to step in and begin providing all the jobs. Everyone will work for the government in some form and fashion. All the rich people fled the country for constantly being the scapegoats. You are left with a whole nation of low class citizenship with no means to start up their own businesses, all of whom beg and demand assistance and help from the big wonderful superhero federal government. They will give federal government more and more and more power because they are desperate for help and think the federal government is the only thing that can save them.

    I also believe that there is elitist ownership of our media. Almost every American has a television set, which they watch for hours per day. Almost all the channels are owned by about 6 companies. All the federal and national government news is coming out of one or two sources. All reporting is being filtered through the pentagon. Remember in George Orwell's 1984 he speaks about the "ministry of truth." Well that idea is more fact than fiction. Sure, Fox news might be the one channel that offers a conservative view. Or so we think. Fox news might just be a decoy to offset every other channel that has a clear liberal bias. The news media in this country used to report news story with objectivity. But now every media station is spinning a political take on the news. There is an intention to instill a liberal bias into viewers. Add to that conspiracy the possibility that the liberal socialist conspiracy is even capable of infiltrating its own opposition and posing as their own opposition only to make them publicly discredited. Why argue against your opponent when you can pretend you ARE your opponent and act like an idiot so that your opposing ideology loses all credibility in the public eye? If i hate liberals, I can go to a local liberal protest and hold up a ridiculous racist sign and tell everyone I am a liberal even though I am really a conservative. Get it?

    The rabbit hole goes a lot deeper. Personally, I believe that most Americans who claim to be blatant supporters of the Democratic Party really don't know what they are supporting. Democratic leaders try to tell the people what they are supporting, yet they do the opposite sometimes. They try to create some sort of duality between our only two political parties when both political parties might just be doing the same thing. The liberal socialist conspiracy doesn't want you to pay attention to how they are dismantling the Constitution, so they get you addicted to Hollywood celebrities, sports, game shows, pornography, sitcoms, rap music and bitches and rims, etc. Anything as long as you are not paying close attention to what politicians are doing. And just in case you actually are interested in politics, they'll making C-SPAN so boring that anyone trying to watch it falls asleep in less than 5 minutes. haha

    I'm sure TheBoarzHead might be able to explain it better since i typed too much already.
    The fucked up thing is I was aware and telling people that Bush was a leftist when I was in 8th grade (4 years ago) and no one believed me. They all thought I was an idiot because he was a republican... Here's what happened at some point in the last 100 years the democratic party traditionally the conservative party began introducing "Progressive" ideas. Progressives were the guys who thought that we should kill off the black race by enforced birth control because they were racially inferior monkeys. The Democrats were the party of slavery after all. While there were democrats in the North they were "War Democrats" which were moderates. The South however was wholly democratic. Now these progressives got in with the Unions which were all white workers guilds designed to keep minorities out of the work force and keep the wage artificially high. At this point the Republicans were still a decent party.

    Now we turn to the depression. The Depression was a grand fuck up caused by the Republicans. Their mistake was they went too hands off in the wrong areas and pretty much allowed the economy to grow faster then it should and when it reset it reset too hard and everyone freaked their shit. So we get rid of Hoover our second to last true conservative. We put in Roosevelt who essentially began to dissemble the economy in order to save it. Unfortunately while it did have an effect he couldn't stop the problems. Regardless a shit ton of communists got into office under Roosevelt. Yes, communist manifesto reading chest beating Power to the People communists.

    Anyhow, we thank god defeat the Nazis and Fascists in Italy (who lets no forget were supposed to be Britain's buffer against Communist expansion and who we backed until the war started.) Then we look at McCarthy who essentially got blacklisted for trying to clean up the government. McCarthy had been a Democrat but he switched parties in 44. The reason of course is rather obvious. At this point the Democratic party is now the party we know today. "Left" leaning communists in disguise. There of course were good elements. I don't think Kennedy was anything short of a great american, but as we all know, Nixon not so much. I think Nixon and the corruption of his administration was the point where the taint of progressivism took first root in the Republican party. I can't really point out any blatant progressive things, but its either here or under Reagan and I think the roots were there before.

    Anyhow, by Reagan we're dealing with "Reaganomics" which essentially ran us into the ground. Cut taxes (good) set spending to "Kill the Mother Fucker" and meanwhile we had the biggest fucking scandal in probably US history (Iran Contra) and both parties decided to sleep on it so that we didn't have another Watergate and erode what slight semblance of faith Americans had in their government. Then we got Bush Sr. damn good republican. I like Senior. Smart guy, tried to take us off the course to damnation that Reagan put us on with Voodoo economics. Apparently people blamed Reagans idiocy on Bush. Bush is out. On the plus side we kicked Iraq's ass. Iraq had been our man in the middle east under Reagan, so its only poetic justice that we killed those mother fuckers.

    Then we got Clinton. Clinton was a far leftist who realized he wasn't going to get shit by the Right because Newt Gingrich was running shit. Anyhow by now the two parties are in bed behind closed doors politically and its no surprise that Bush gets the election in 2000. It didn't really matter. We had a far left progressive (Al Gore) and a moderate progressive (George Bush.) It wasn't so much that some Illuminati planned this, its just how things worked out. The Democrats were Communists in all but name and the Republicans were Neo conservatives which is just a fancy term for Progressive Republican. I don't think some cat stroking mother fucker orchestrated it, I just think the game got rigged 50 years earlier.

    Now we have Obama who was going to "change policy" but has effectively redoubled every effort Bush had. What's happened gentlemen, is our "two party system" has effectively become a one party system. What will happen? The far left will be replaced by the less left. And the Less left will be replaced by the far left. With each new election we do not take one step backwards but creep towards an imagined Goal.



    Now, as long as it is done in bits and pieces over many years there will be no white army. The red can infiltrate and build up its power. Obama is a socialist. The next president will be a Republican. Of that I am certain. They will attempt to dial things back a bit. But it won't matter. The left controls the media. The left controls the unions. The left will have a man back in 2016. By then it won't be a little bit by little bit like it is now. There will be blood. I'm not saying there will be a war, but its not going to be pretty. We've gone so far in over our head there's going to be a lot of problems coming out of it. We've got a lot of people who will die to see Communism and that's what it is, in America. We've got a lot of people who would die rather then see their kids grow up under communism. That's a problem. We also have a third and even worse possibility. The people who will try to take advantage of this. These will be fascists. You won't recognize them because no one really knows what fascism looks like. Every thinks Fascism is Far Right, but that's Anarchy (when the only law over you is your own and God's). Fascism is radical moderation. The Fascists will claim to unite left and right in a greater purpose. They'll blame the Blacks and the Mexicans as the Communists. They'll blame the Jews as capitalist pigs.

    I'll put it lightly. We'll look back at World War two and laugh. Palehorse will start looking sane. And God help me if I'm gonna let that happen.
    HANKERING FOR SOME BEEF CURTAINS

  13. #28
    כהן גדול TheBoarzHeadBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Threyev View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you said, largely on the similarities between Bush II and Obama and the government's stake in the stock market and automotive industry. Let me just highlight a few points of what you said there and offer my two cents / further questions:

    Maybe not an emergency for you. But, before healthcare was passed, for every person who died in a terrorist attack globally (1), 58 people in the US died because of a lack of healthcare (2).

    1 - 774.7 per year, according to the US Department of State
    2 - 45k a year, according to Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance

    I'd rather just the abolishment of welfare at the federal level and then let the states run their own independent welfare programs, whether it be nothing or even more than what's currently in place. A lot of people take advantage of welfare, but at the same time there are people who need it, so totally abolishing it would certainly bring those people more hardship. The answer is reform, not abolishment.


    This is what I was talking about in my original post, and also where I asked for "evidence." Not you stating your opinions and offering nothing to back them up. Get it? And I'm not talking about the elitist ownership; that's pretty common knowledge.


    This is where I leave the boat. I left my tinfoil hat at the cleaners. I don't think that everything on television is a way to distract people from politics; I think that it's certainly what happens a lot of the time, but I don't believe that it was the desired effect. They (the people involved in the creation of the show) just wanted people to watch so they'd get paid.

    Okay I'm out.
    We need to fix health care. We should introduce more programs to make it easier to become a doctor (financially speaking). More doctors means more supply. The demand certainly isn't going anywhere. So we cater to the supply side. Doctors make a little less but prices go down because of the free market. Doctors want to help people. They aren't in it for money. Then we open up the insurance market to make it so that no matter where you are you can get whatever health insurance you want. More options=more competition=lower prices. Basic economics. Everyone should have affordable health care. The government can't make that happen.

    I think welfare is a crutch. I think a lot of people need that crutch. I think some people don't. We need to reform the system so that if you're getting money from the state you have to do something in return. I think community service would be a good idea. If you're taking money from tax payers I want you to be doing something. Not something hard, but helping at a soup kitchen or cleaning up a park. Low impact stuff.

    I can see where you back off with tin foil. So do I. I don't think anyone planned it to work out the way it did. But it may have just been the natural evolution of things. If anyone planned this, it was the Commies fifty years ago. Vietnam turned America against the government. Vietnam made shit go wrong socially. The 1960s made the world we have now. That's not a good thing. Some good things happened, but it created the sons of bitches we have in politics now. We've just got so much fuckery going on. Everybody is a puppet of everybody else. I don't think Fox is evil and I don't think MSNBC is evil. I also don't think Hitler was evil. That's the problem. Everybody just does their own thing and it all spirals out of control.

    Orwell was a socialist who saw the risks of socialism. He wanted people to have a good life but he saw the dangers that could come of it. I don't think he had a solution. That's where we are. We want everyone to have a good life and that's our mission as humans. To make it easier for ourselves and others. But when we take short cuts we run off the road.
    HANKERING FOR SOME BEEF CURTAINS

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    Good stuff Threyev and Boarzhead.

    ahhh I don't really want to go too far on to a tangent as far as healthcare is concerned. But i do believe that the Obama/Pelosi healthcare bill that they passed with urgency and immediacy and panic panic panic was a great deception. You think it is a wonderful glorifying bill that is going to grant free healthcare to all people in a sweet candyland fair world. Not really. I've never in my life been denied healthcare or been unable to pay for my healthcare. Of course i am still fairly young. The real problems were with all the fraud and waste in medicare and medicaid. Why couldn't they just clean up medicare and medicaid and be done with it? Nooooooo they had to try to get their greedy government fingers in on the healthcare sector which is about 20% of our entire GDP. Lots of money for the taking! I think that once people see the new healthcare (obamacare) in action they won't be so impressed AT ALL. And once we see that obamacare is costing this country more money than our huge inflated defense budget we'll be completely convinced that it was some pretty bad accounting by the CBO when they claimed that it would save our country money in the long run. There are LOTS of things wrong with the new healthcare legislation but I could write a very long essay on it that WU fans are probably not interested in.

    As far as Reagonomics, I think Reagan catches way more heat than he deserves. I actually think he was a good president. We can start a thread breaking down all the successes and failures of his administration. I know that liberals absolutely fucking hate Ronald Reagan. Which means he must not be bad at all (sarcasm)!!!

    I liked Threyev's point about welfare being a state power in state jurisdiction. In my honest opinion, the federal government should not be doing charity. That is what we have churches and communities and friends and family for - to get us through the tough times. Not many of us completely make it on our own in this lifetime. We use other people as our crutches. I don't think that government is meant to be a crutch. Government is a "necessary evil" and we should remember that. If the government doing charity helps you forget that they are indeed a "necessary evil" then you are only being deceived. Besides, when the government does charity, you are taking from many to give to a few. Now the attitude of many is that they do not need to do charity because the tax money they pay the government is doing their charity for them. I met someone last week who has been unemployed since 2008 and is STILL RECEIVING UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS!! 2 fucking years you can't find a job? Yeah right. There are enough not-for-profit and private charity organizations and churches and religious community centers in this country to do the charity for the people who legitimately need it. Government cannot efficiently operate these programs, they've PROVEN that to us.

    Where it all breaks down in my opinion is something as simple as this: family values, morals, ethics, honesty, responsibility, positive attitude, self-dependency and self-respect, etc. All the characteristics and values are fading away. People just have bad fucking attitudes, think they deserve free everything and shouldn't have to work for it, think that successful people are just evil rich people, etc. etc. No one takes responsibilities for their own failures anymore. People are addicted to instant gratification and entertainment and don't know the value of taking pride in their work anymore. And most people don't even pay attention to the REAL news or the politics or even who they are voting for. Attention spans are so short now that someone can't even stand through the national anthem without pulling out their cell phone and texting. No respect for this country, no pride, no respect for your neighbors, etc. Big evil government or no big evil government, society is failing as a whole and becoming more like your biblic Sodom and Gamorrah. Simple old rituals such as actually sitting down with your family for dinner are becoming extinct. Families are becoming extinct. We don't even know what a fucking family is anymore? One spouse with 2 prior divorces? 2 gay married men? 3 fat kids with attention deficit disorders who eat their tv dinners watching are you smarter than a 5th grader? Parents who don't know how to be parents. Children who don't respect their parents. A busted educational system. Colleges that aren't even affordable because they tenured too many closet-communist professors who would never stand a chance at hacking it in the real world. etc. etc.

    So yeah I'm not going to blame everything on some "cat stroking mother fucker" as Boarzhead put it. I'm putting most of the blame on the decay of moral values in society. And yeah, we thought that the communists were defeated when they were still always still there just waiting for us to let our guards down. Now we have fucking communists teaching our children at colleges around the country. Fucking commies are educating your children! And parents aren't educating their children. Parents hardly even see their own children. And I've already posted enough in this forum for you guys to notice my views on communism which i believe to be heavily influencing liberal left politics in this country. Their advancements are gradual and their policies implemented in pieces so that the change can happen nonchalantly.

    If you really just want to seal the coffin of the USA, just take away legal citizens' rights to bear arms (which they have been trying to do for a long time). Take away the free people's weaponry and we are literally disarmed from whatever government does or from whoever takes over our government. Liberals only want criminals and government employees to have guns. Not free law-abiding citizens.

  15. #30
    Eff Grandad THUGNIFICENT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy View Post
    I think welfare is a crutch. I think a lot of people need that crutch. I think some people don't. We need to reform the system so that if you're getting money from the state you have to do something in return. I think community service would be a good idea. If you're taking money from tax payers I want you to be doing something. Not something hard, but helping at a soup kitchen or cleaning up a park. Low impact stuff.
    Cosign one-hundred per cent.

    I can see where you back off with tin foil. So do I. I don't think anyone planned it to work out the way it did. But it may have just been the natural evolution of things. If anyone planned this, it was the Commies fifty years ago. Vietnam turned America against the government. Vietnam made shit go wrong socially. The 1960s made the world we have now. That's not a good thing. Some good things happened, but it created the sons of bitches we have in politics now. We've just got so much fuckery going on. Everybody is a puppet of everybody else.
    I would argue that, while lots of fuckery did go down as a direct result of the 60's, it was a time of great advancement for many groups of people in society. Women, gays, non-white dudes - they all got some wins in that decade, which was extremely rare for them in American history up to that point. It was also the last time that any significant change in the way the government behaved and the policies it followed was affected by the people. Since then, protests and marches have meant dick to the people in power, and haven't lead to any change. Even groups that get lots of coverage (today's Tea Party, for example) don't actually influence politics.

    I don't think Fox is evil and I don't think MSNBC is evil. I also don't think Hitler was evil. That's the problem. Everybody just does their own thing and it all spirals out of control.
    I'm all for shades of gray (one of the primary joys in my life is directing people to the plethora of racist Ghandi quotes out there), but I don't know about that whole Hitler-not-being-evil thing. But that's another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post
    ahhh I don't really want to go too far on to a tangent as far as healthcare is concerned. But i do believe that the Obama/Pelosi healthcare bill that they passed with urgency and immediacy and panic panic panic was a great deception. You think it is a wonderful glorifying bill that is going to grant free healthcare to all people in a sweet candyland fair world. Not really. I've never in my life been denied healthcare or been unable to pay for my healthcare. Of course i am still fairly young. The real problems were with all the fraud and waste in medicare and medicaid. Why couldn't they just clean up medicare and medicaid and be done with it? Nooooooo they had to try to get their greedy government fingers in on the healthcare sector which is about 20% of our entire GDP. Lots of money for the taking! I think that once people see the new healthcare (obamacare) in action they won't be so impressed AT ALL. And once we see that obamacare is costing this country more money than our huge inflated defense budget we'll be completely convinced that it was some pretty bad accounting by the CBO when they claimed that it would save our country money in the long run. There are LOTS of things wrong with the new healthcare legislation but I could write a very long essay on it that WU fans are probably not interested in.
    I should've stated this in the other post, but I'm pretty vehemently against the healthcare bill that passed. I'm all for healthcare reform, but that's not at all what we got. I still want a public option, and I think the notion that you are forced to get healthcare is an idiotic and oppressive one. I also believe that the main issue that needed to be addressed was the corruption and dismal treatment of human beings within and by the insurance companies, and that wasn't changed at all; probably because the insurance companies are in the pockets of just about every politician with a voice (see I can put on that tinfoil New Era when I want to). And if you wanna write that essay on why you think the healthcare plan is ass, PM it to me and I'll read it (no homo).

    That being said, there are certainly positives to the healthcare bill being passed, which were what I had in mind when speaking on it earlier. Things like the fact that kids can't be denied because of preexisting conditions, small business tax cuts to help pay for insurance, and that insurance companies can't cut somebody when she or he gets sick. Is that worth the price? Probably not. But I still think those are good things that shouldn't be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post
    As far as Reagonomics, I think Reagan catches way more heat than he deserves. I actually think he was a good president. We can start a thread breaking down all the successes and failures of his administration. I know that liberals absolutely fucking hate Ronald Reagan. Which means he must not be bad at all (sarcasm)!!!
    Yeah we're definitely on different pages here. If you make a thread about it I'll definitely make the argument for "Shitty" while you make the argument for "Good" or "Not So Shitty" or whatever.

    Where it all breaks down in my opinion is something as simple as this: family values, morals, ethics, honesty, responsibility, positive attitude, self-dependency and self-respect, etc. All the characteristics and values are fading away. People just have bad fucking attitudes, think they deserve free everything and shouldn't have to work for it, think that successful people are just evil rich people, etc. etc. No one takes responsibilities for their own failures anymore. People are addicted to instant gratification and entertainment and don't know the value of taking pride in their work anymore. And most people don't even pay attention to the REAL news or the politics or even who they are voting for. Attention spans are so short now that someone can't even stand through the national anthem without pulling out their cell phone and texting. No respect for this country, no pride, no respect for your neighbors, etc. Big evil government or no big evil government, society is failing as a whole and becoming more like your biblic Sodom and Gamorrah. Simple old rituals such as actually sitting down with your family for dinner are becoming extinct. Families are becoming extinct. We don't even know what a fucking family is anymore? One spouse with 2 prior divorces? 2 gay married men? 3 fat kids with attention deficit disorders who eat their tv dinners watching are you smarter than a 5th grader? Parents who don't know how to be parents. Children who don't respect their parents. A busted educational system. Colleges that aren't even affordable because they tenured too many closet-communist professors who would never stand a chance at hacking it in the real world. etc. etc.
    I disagree with you here on certain aspects. I think that the whole "family values" rhetoric that is usually pushed out by the right (no disrespect) is pretty much bullshit. There was just as much miserable marriages and homosexuals in America in the time when we still had these precious values (when people talk of this, I usually get an image of the 50's or early 60's; correct me if I'm wrong), it's just that people suppressed their feelings. They got stuck in miserable relationships and soldiered through it for their whole life while they churned out the two kids that are fucking up social security right about...now. The only difference between then and now is that people are more open about their feelings, and it is much more widely accepted (in most aspects of society, except for the most part the very religious) to get a divorce etc.

    Now as far as the decline of society, I can't decide if I agree or not. Some days I look at Lady Gaga and think we're all headed for shit, and some days I just think that this is the typical "this is the end" mentality people have had since humans evolved to the point where we're capable of such thoughts. More often that not, I lean towards the latter rather than the former, and just say that it's kids bein' kids, acting differently from their parents and pissing them off.

    I definitely cosign the idea that this generation is the dumbest, though. Or if not the dumbest, just dumb as a bitch. Pound for pound, we've been getting dumber and dumber for a while. That's why, with all the talk of things we need to reform right now, it's strange that so often education seems to get placed on the back burner. If we taught the kids how to think for themselves and made them into intelligent citizens, they'd be able to assist in the reformation of all the other problems in the country. That's just me though.


    If you really just want to seal the coffin of the USA, just take away legal citizens' rights to bear arms (which they have been trying to do for a long time). Take away the free people's weaponry and we are literally disarmed from whatever government does or from whoever takes over our government. Liberals only want criminals and government employees to have guns. Not free law-abiding citizens.
    I don't think that sort of "liberals want this" and "liberals are commies trying to brainwash your children!" rhetoric is helping anybody, least of all yourself and your arguments. Do some liberals (foolishly) believe in restriction of gun rights? Sure. Do all? Surely not. Do most? I don't think so. Many believe in reform, certainly, but those who want guns only in the hands of federal employees are in the minority.

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