Jesus = Lucifer

[THE W]

he did speak in parables right ?


the scripture where the Jesus of revelations speaks about being the alpha and omega - the first and the last .... i take this as saying that he was born from the 2 nations who were initially against each other. and that he would be the connection ....


and would restore them to a better life by bringing them to a healthier state of mind and body - and this would eventually lead them to live an everlasting life....brb

again not so,

alpha and omega = first and last. the one present in the beginning as one of the holy trinity and the one coming back in the end of the age for his chosen people.

in no way referencing the nations of jacob and esau.

basically whats being said in that passage is "i started all this and now im gonna finish it"

[V4D3R]

Ayo - the Bible planted fear inside tha black babies
50 cent sodas in the hood they go crazy...
dead meat placed on shelves - you eat cold cuts
fast from the Bible yall and grow up


13

[THE W]

Ayo - the Bible planted fear inside tha black babies
50 cent sodas in the hood they go crazy...
dead meat placed on shelves - you eat cold cuts
fast from the Bible yall and grow up


13

explain how the bible has promoted fear?

[V4D3R]

explain how the bible has promoted fear?

Psalm 69:28
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[THE W]

so you dont like there being consequences for wrong actions? thats what those scriptures are about. punishment for wrongdoing.

do you think people should be able to do what they want with no consequence?

do you live in fear of prison?

[V4D3R]

We would all burn if that were the case...

What about those that burn....and burn... and burn....and were innocent...?

[THE W]

We would all burn if that were the case...

What about those that burn....and burn... and burn....and were innocent...?

it would be the case if there was no atonement for our sins, but there is in the death of Jesus on the cross.

im gonna guess that you also know john 3:16.

those who will be separated from God eternally(or as you call it, burn and burn and burn) are those who rejected Jesus and thus rejected the father.

as i said before, hell is those who wanted nothing to do with God finally getting their wish.

[V4D3R]

Idol worship going against the Law in the Torah.

The whole thing is driving you insane. Blind faith.

The contradictions...

I reject the bible...and I know I don't need Jesus to be in communion with the Creator.

You on the other hand will burn people constantly at the stake to see it the way it's written in that book. Those innocents that still burn today...people who believe on something other then Christianity or Islam. Those innocent women who were called witches, prostitutes, some murdered by their own brothers fathers and mothers all in the name of whats written in these books...in the name of sharia...in the name of this...in the name of that...

Next your going to tell me they didnt have the proper way to interpret the writings. Some don't see the meaning of the story of Tower of Babylon. The division of the people by the "gods" plural. The separating of the seeds and languages...

U-N-I ted we're strong - Divided we fall - together we can stand tall (best lyric in hip-hop's history)

[LORD NOSE]

it would be the case if there was no atonement for our sins, but there is in the death of Jesus on the cross.

im gonna guess that you also know john 3:16.

those who will be separated from God eternally(or as you call it, burn and burn and burn) are those who rejected Jesus and thus rejected the father.

as i said before, hell is those who wanted nothing to do with God finally getting their wish.

what does the Bible say against pride and arrogance ?

the Pharisees believed that they were following the laws in the torah laid down by God and rejected Jesus, correct ?

Jesus brought a new way in a new day - today, in our times, this also happened. we have people following an ancient misinterpreted writing that has many people looking down on each other and even killing each other over what they believe God wants from them.

will the proud and arrogant today have a rude awakening ?

[V4D3R]

Sunny where is he?

I think I found one

one with so much knowledge and jewels at a young age its unreal.

one so strong he wont hide his tears yet has no fear

one thats willing to burn this whole fucker down or flood it if he could but wont

his scepter is powerful

jesus went against the pharisees way because it became corrupted

this one went against Yashua's way because it became corrupted

anyhow its not only one of them - the potential is in all of us to see the light and to atone with god on a personal level. we are all god. you hurt me and its going to hurt you eventually whether you like it or not...

If I'm going to be a messenger relaying an enlightened message for example your all going to want to burn me at the stake because your all programmed to be aware of "false" prophets and your fear of hell will feed that. So many martyrs have died at the hands of this lunacy throughout the centuries its the biggest single mass murder in history...

Christinity was written with a very intrinsic defensive mechanism of word play...words are like 101101 100111 for a cpu for our minds. Put the right combination together and enough people preaching it and it has a snowball effect...no matter how many flaws are discovered the brain is still programmed and the defensive mechanisms kick in.

Whats it going to take to realize you been hoodwinked...bamboozled.

I'm in no way saying my way is right because the reality is nobody knows. We all have our own reality and experience here. That's the big picture.

[THE W]

what does the Bible say against pride and arrogance ?

the Pharisees believed that they were following the laws in the torah laid down by God and rejected Jesus, correct ?

Jesus brought a new way in a new day - today, in our times, this also happened. we have people following an ancient misinterpreted writing that has many people looking down on each other and even killing each other over what they believe God wants from them.

will the proud and arrogant today have a rude awakening ?

matthew 9:16

“No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch will pull away from the garment, making the tear worse. 17 Neither do people pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”

what do you take this to mean?

[THE W]

Idol worship going against the Law in the Torah.

The whole thing is driving you insane. Blind faith.

The contradictions...

I reject the bible...and I know I don't need Jesus to be in communion with the Creator.

You on the other hand will burn people constantly at the stake to see it the way it's written in that book. Those innocents that still burn today...people who believe on something other then Christianity or Islam. Those innocent women who were called witches, prostitutes, some murdered by their own brothers fathers and mothers all in the name of whats written in these books...in the name of sharia...in the name of this...in the name of that...

Next your going to tell me they didnt have the proper way to interpret the writings. Some don't see the meaning of the story of Tower of Babylon. The division of the people by the "gods" plural. The separating of the seeds and languages...

U-N-I ted we're strong - Divided we fall - together we can stand tall (best lyric in hip-hop's history)

how about this, you show me a verse in the bible that says christians should burn people at the steak for not believing in Jesus.

what contradictions?

[THE W]

Sunny where is he?

I think I found one

one with so much knowledge and jewels at a young age its unreal.

one so strong he wont hide his tears yet has no fear

one thats willing to burn this whole fucker down or flood it if he could but wont

his scepter is powerful

jesus went against the pharisees way because it became corrupted

this one went against Yashua's way because it became corrupted

anyhow its not only one of them - the potential is in all of us to see the light and to atone with god on a personal level. we are all god. you hurt me and its going to hurt you eventually whether you like it or not...

If I'm going to be a messenger relaying an enlightened message for example your all going to want to burn me at the stake because your all programmed to be aware of "false" prophets and your fear of hell will feed that. So many martyrs have died at the hands of this lunacy throughout the centuries its the biggest single mass murder in history...

Christinity was written with a very intrinsic defensive mechanism of word play...words are like 101101 100111 for a cpu for our minds. Put the right combination together and enough people preaching it and it has a snowball effect...no matter how many flaws are discovered the brain is still programmed and the defensive mechanisms kick in.

Whats it going to take to realize you been hoodwinked...bamboozled.

I'm in no way saying my way is right because the reality is nobody knows. We all have our own reality and experience here. That's the big picture.

in short you believe that you are God?

how have i been bamboozled and hoodwinked?

[Face of the Golden Falcon]

@face of the golden falcon

a name is nothing more than a title, a means of identification. a rose would not stop smelling as sweet if it were named something else. the physical attributes and characteristic of someone or something are not determined by their name so i dont see where you're going here.

I wont go any further then. If you aren't aware that names and the vibrational quality of sound and words mean anything then you probably aren't going see where I am going.

Yahweh in the beginning spoke all things into creation. The underlying foundation of the universe is the Word, Yah's Word (scientificly varifiable by the fact that all in essence is vibration). The first thing spoken into existence was light. The Hebrew word for light is "owr". The Kamitic word for this first created light is "Ra". Both words contain in them the vibrational quality of what eastern mystic traditions say is the first word ever spoken into existence, "Aum". When one abides in the Word, that is the light of the Most High it is said that one is surrounded and is permeated by an "Aura". (This will all help with a proper mystical understanding of John 1 by the way)

Names are not just names. Words are not just words. Apart from the fact that if you are going to deify a man you would think you would at least want to get his name correct, the importance of names and words and sounds is a whole nother topic in itself. I'd encourage you to look it into it further.

the fact that we have no access to the father without Jesus, which means we have no fellowship with him, is made pretty darn clear in john 14.

john 14:6-7(NIV)

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

what do you take this to mean? Jesus saying point blank no one has access to the father if they dont go throw him. since we both understand that Jesus does not speak anything the father does not speak why do you think he makes this statement?

Jesus is the way, Jesus is the truth, Jesus is the life. that is the statement that Jesus, who only speaks what the father tells him, just made.

there is simply no reason for the father to have his son say something like this unless he had plans to glorify his son. God never gave such an office to any of the prophets before him including moses and also john the baptist whom jesus described as the greatest person to ever be born of a women(matthew 11:11. remember, jesus doesnt speak anything that the father doesnt speak).

but i guess john 14 isnt good enough for you when describing the blood sacrifice. so we'll go with something else.

It doesn't at all speak of a blood sacrifice, don't pretend like it does.

Again, if you study mystical traditions you will find statements, like those made by Yashu'a in John 14, all over the world. It is not enough for one to study the Tao (The Way!) one must live, become and embody the Tao. Indeed no one comes to the Father but by the Way, the Truth and the Life and Yashu'a embodied the Way.

luke 22:14-22(NIV)

When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a] 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!” 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.

matthew 17:21-23(NIV)

When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. 23 They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.

keeping with the theme that jesus only speaks what the father tells him why would he have jesus saying things about a new covenant in his blood? why would he speak about the son of man being killed and then raised to life.

The renewed covenant (spoken of in Jeremiah 31, which again beautifully explains the mystic experience of communion with the Most High) was brought to the lost sheep of Israel through Yashu'a's blood. Do you have any idea what was done to those who exposed the esoteric teachings of the mystic traditions to the "common rabble" back then? You were tortured and killed. But Yashu'a followed the Will of Yah even unto death. This is truely living in communion with the Creator. And through his example, by following his example (those who believe and follow his teachings) the Lost Sheep of Israel and eventually even the Gentiles are given the right to eat of the Tree of Life (which is from the beginning of the Bible in Genesis to the very end in Revelations the true way into life. An understanding of what the Tree of Life is, is only going to come from, you guessed it, studying the mystic traditions).

the books of exodus and Leviticus speak about sacrificing of various animals for atonement of sins.

exodus 29:36(NIV)
Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement . Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it.

numbers 7:87
The total number of animals for the burnt offering came to twelve young bulls, twelve rams and twelve male lambs a year old, together with their grain offering. Twelve male goats were used for the sin offering.

so we understand through the old testament scriptures that this was how sins were atoned for.

No they weren't. It was never about the physical act of sacrificing an animal.


El's Holy Tehillim (Psalms) 51:15-17
15O Yahweh, open thou thy lips, and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; thou delightest not in burnt offerings. 17The sacrifices of El are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart, O El, thou wilt not despise.

The Most High gave it to the Israelites in degrees like any good teacher. They still didn't understand and neither do you.

And if you want to get into the mystic tradition of the Holy Tabernacle(which came out of Kamit) and what it meant that the sacrifice only took part within the Holy of Holies we can. (King David understood it as shown by the previous scripture)

God later grew tired of these sacrifices and rituals because the hearts of men were unpure.

God grew tired? Give me a break.

Isaiah 1:10-17(NIV)

Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of Sodom;
listen to the instruction of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the Lord.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations —
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening. Your hands are full of blood!

16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.[a]
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.

Wow. You post this verse and still don't get it? That verse said in plain words that El never cared for the actual physical act of sacrifice, that it was always about doing righteousness, sacrificing your own flesh (physical body) and blood (life) for the Word of the Most High.

But God still sought out a relationship with his people. so he sent his son Jesus to be the final blood sacrifice.

Yet I, and you yourself with those words from Isaiah, proved that Yah doesn't even want sacrifices.

john 3:16. i dont think i need to quote this as you probably know it by heart.

No you don't, but it still makes no mention of a physical blood sacrifice.

Jesus' sacrifice made it possible for all people to come to God. the jew and the gentile.

Damn straight it did. But not in some spooky babylonian blood for blood ritualistic killing. In hard work, nuts and bolts, living righteous unto death and beyond. "Be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" said Yashu'a. In this way the mystic traditions aren't really all that mystic. They've just been made to seem that way to keep the children of the Most High away from them.

your statement:
can you expand on what you're trying to say here?

If El is righteous and El gives to man an understanding of what righteousness is and it involves not killing ie. Thou shalt not kill. Then how is El justified in demanding the blood sacrifice of his son for atonement? (At One Ment, being of one mind ie. to follow the will of the One)

again i ask...the truth about WHAT? that jesus and the father are one?

The same oneness that Yashu'a prayed we all might be?

John 17:21 So that they all may be one, just as thou, my Father art with me, and I am with thee, that they also may be one with us; so that the world may believe that thou didst send me.


I guess if we are all able to be one with the Father then that Trinity of yours is going to get awful crowded!

john 8:23-24(niv)
But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

yeah, leads to the truth. i guess that truth is jesus since jesus calls himself the way, the truth, and the life. remember now, he only speaks what the father tells him.

Already explained.

yeah, he also call him himself the light:

john 8:12(NIV)
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

now we know that Jesus said that no one would come to the father except through him and now he's saying that whoever follows me will never walk in darkness. this is more on the father glorifying his son.

Yashu'a also said YOU are the Light of the world.
Matthews 5:14. And in John 17 whilst praying for the oneness of Yah with his children also prayed saying that he has passed on his glory to his followers. Therefor you have yet to make Yashu'a unique as worthy of deification and serving (for you will love the one and hate the other!)

but here is concrete evidence that God has glorified his son to be worshiped.

matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

this is utter blasphemy on the part of Jesus right here!

why would Jesus, who only does what the father tells him, not say to his disciples when they started worshiping him "no! stop that! this is blasphemy! you should worship God and God only"?

its what the angel did:

revelation 22:8-9
I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

First of all that is doctored scripture when supposedly talking of the trinity. The original said "baptizing them in my name."


Regarding the other point. Worship as translated from the Hebrew/Aramaic in the scripture is not unique to worship of the One God. It is a reverence and honoring of someone, which may or may not be Yahweh. The disciples did not fall to there feet worshipping and saying "Praise to you the One God!" or anything along those lines. Yashu'a was comfortable with the reverence he was receiving, if that is indeed accurate scripture. The birth story and post death scripture is very suspect.

The Malachim/Angel in revelations however was not comfortable with it and told John to revere God alone. You cannot justify the the words or actions of one being with the words or actions of another.

why would Jesus say something as blasphemous as "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me"? given to him by who? only God the father has that stuff so Jesus is saying God gave that to him.

why does Jesus, who only speaks what the father tells him, say something like that?

maybe because this was God the father's will and plan all along.

This has all been covered. Seriously look into the mystic traditions and stop worshipping idols.

want more?

Please. The sword is being sharpened.

luke 24:36-53
While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Nope. That didn't do it. The worship business has been explained. Forgiveness of sins being preached in his name is the idea that people thought that they were being punished for their sins. This is what people thought and still think. That karma has something to do with punishment. Yashu'a taught that as soon as you repent as long as you forgive the wrongdoings of others unto you, you are forgiven. In this light Karma is seen as a teacher not as punisher.

i dont serve two master, i only serve one in praising Jesus as God the father commanded. it doesnt make Jesus greater than God as God still remains the most high. it simply means that God the father has glorified his son's name to be worshiped and made him the final atonement for sins though his death and shedding of blood.

Explained. Quit with the blood thirsty babylonian ritual crap. At One Ment through murder. This is what you teach.

Jesus has been here since the beginning as the the scripture says in genesis let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness. this "us' was the trinity(father, son, holy spirit).

That's a bunk interpretation of the scripture. A quick google search will show you that. There is no christian concept of trinity mentioned by Yashu'a or another true follower of Yah in biblical scripture. The christian trinity is a completley misunderstood bastardization of the orginal trinity of mystic traditions. One to satisfy their left brain, idol worship way of thinking.

john 1:1-18
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it. 6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

That bit of scripture doesn't even mention Yashu'a until the 17th verse. The first part is not talking of Yashu'a but the Light of the Word of El that became flesh through Yashu'a. Now see if you can connect this to the first thing I wrote about names and words.

Like I said, the trinity is completley misunderstood. The Word is called "He" because it is the masculine principle of the Yin/Yang that manifests out of the Godhead.


Godhead
/ \
Word ------- Spirit
Masuline Feminine
Yang Yin

bottomline, when you worship Jesus, you're worshiping God because Jesus IS God. they are ONE in THREE. God, Jesus, and the holy spirit are 3 different persons but the Glory and majesty of God the father and creator are fully present in all 3 persons.

You throw the word persons (persona ie. through sound) around without even having an understanding of the power of words. None of what your lengthy reply said justified your idol worship of a flesh being you call Jesus.

here's an extra one:

john 17:1-5

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

If the Light of the Word of Yah was with Yah at the beginning and indeed is Yah. And that Light is in us and is indeed is us (YOU are the light of the world, remember.) Then we were all glorified in the presence of Yah at the beginning.


Mystical traditions. The truth is not a bloodied clump of flesh on a cross to appease a blood thirsty god. It is Light of the Word of Yah that one must sacrifice ones life for.

[Face of the Golden Falcon]

in short you believe that you are God?

how have i been bamboozled and hoodwinked?

Your scripture says "Ye are Elohim." Both Yahweh and Yashu'a said it. Why do you deny your birthright and give it up for hunger?