Alcohol - the innocent drug

[STYLE]

you contradicted yourself and committed a few non sequiturs. but you didn't have to call my comments stupid. thats a sign of insecurity by the way.


1.anything in excess is bad.
you claim that if something is done excessively and causes harm, then its is bad for you in moderation as well. (2:219) (5: 90-91) i feel you but even the Quran says that there is some good in wine.
but exercise if done too much can kill you. work, the same. eating, sleeping, sex and even thinking too much can be a bad thing. (all thought no action)
are you suggestiing we stop? of course not.

2. you agree that thc lsd and alcohol can give you insight. but then you say something about X. who said x was good? you watched a show about it. tv kills braincells, damages your vision, causes radiation posioning and dumbs you down, plus it is an escape from reality. so according to you its immoral. there is no moderation in immorality so throw your tv away.

3. yes, 6yo mentality is good sometimes. get in touch with your inner child.

4. my point is that altering one consciousness is part of the human experience. since the beginning of time.

5. alot of your commentary was rambling nonsense. ur just chicken. bwak bwak. come on man, drinlk. all the cool people do it.

[STYLE]

to add. you hang with some lame mfs or you are basing your opinion on exaggerations. the whole "i love you man" thing is laughable. but as far as the humor thing goes. every comedy club serves liquor. wonder why. liquor is a social lubricant. sometimes peple build up such a fortified ego or mask that it is too hard to loosen up.
i also like how your ways of loosening up are things you do alone. books dvd internet.

haha ur a nerd!!

[SubtleEnergies]

That isn't a sign of insecurity. It is a sign I saw no logic in many of your points.

1.LMAO! The Koran incrementally prohibited alchol because of the state of Arabia at the time. The early verses kinda implied to minimize it then when the Koran outright prohibited it the Arabs smashed and poured out their alcohol.


"They ask you about intoxicants and gambling: say, 'In them there is a gross sin, and some benefits for the people. But their sinfulness far outweighs their benefit.'" 2:219

"O you who believe, intoxicants, and gambling, and the altars of idols, and the games of chance are abominations of the devil; you shall avoid them, that you may succeed." 50

They are pretty strong words! ABOMINATIONS OF THE DEVIL! It is hardly saying it is half cool like you are trying to imply. Also, it says there is some benefit - yes, I agree - the benefit of temporary, blissful ignorance. It also says the harm FAR OUT WEIGHS this benefit. So the net result is still harm. I can find SOME BENEFIT in almost any bad act.....it is hardly supporting alcohol.

Also, the Hadith of Muhammed is clear too "if a bottle intoxicates, a drop is forbidden."

As far as I can see all of the above is pretty much in accord with what I said.

2. LOL I agree TV is a waste of time. I am lucky to watch an hour of television a week. But it kills brain cells now? That's new...how does it do that...with its radiation? TV is a medium for information....it can be good or bad depending on how it is used. I rarely watch tv and when I do I like watching stuff that interests me...however, I think the only sin in watching television is the waste of time...and I hardly watch it. However, people do need to relax naturally...and sometimes doing nothing is ok. Unlike drugs or alcohol it has no negative effects except for the opportunity cost of time that could be better spent. And if all you time is spent on television you may well get dumber. I don't see it as IMMORAL...just not the most productive use of time....if a person continuously wastes their time...then that would be immoral....and sometimes I do waste my time, I try not to. But I never said either that I was the model of morality.

Also, the X was just an example of how long term drug effects can be. I know it wasn't related....but like I said I am sure the drugs you mentioned have similar effects....I just didn't happened to watch a show on any of them or be bothered to dig up the stats on them.

3. Like I said, that shouldn't mean you have to revert to stupidity and renounce the intellect.

4. I was saying this lends no credibility to it - and it still doesn't.

5. Haha It wasn't rambling nonsense :P You know I think that's the saddest thing about alcohol...people who drink coz others do....

And if I were cool do you think I would spend so much time on this forum....religion, philosophy, politics, books.....dude, anyone on here hardly fits the normal definition of "cool" anymore....personally I am glad for that

[MASTER PAI MEI]

Alcohol is here to stay. That being said I like alcohol but I do not drink like I used to. Alcohol can open ones inhibitions and allow people to relax. It can also turn people into bumbling idiots and make them obnoxious. I believe alcohol is a phase for most people, we all have fun drink all night get shit faced say we won't do it again and then repeat it the next weekend or month later. I for one don't really drink any more unless I'm at a social occasion. Even then its just a drink or two nothing compared to my younger years. It all depends on the person some people become alcoholics others make bad choices when intoxicated. It just depends on the person.

[The 13th Jewel]

Alcohol is ok, but its all about the weed man. No hangover

[Mumm Ra]

From my point of view (yes, it is only an opinion) renouncing conciousness for the bliss of ignorance is immoral. There is no moderation in immorality. Can you steal moderately? Rape moderately? Kill moderately? I really really feel like raping a woman...is it ok to just rape on every few months, in moderation?

Now if you drink. Fine, that is your business. But all that means is that there is something about you, your life or whatever, that makes you want to be less concious of it.

I don't see how you can compare those examples to drinking effectively. If I have lets say 6 beers (moderate) I'm not renouncing consciousness as I'm still fully aware of my ways and actions, maybe slightly buzzed and more sociable, and hence not in a state of ignorant bliss.
There's a wide range in the drunken spectrum and not in those examples. I can drink one beer and not feel anything or I can drink 20 and be smashed and many different levels in between. Once any one of your examples are done at all that's it. (I think you're only looking at the factor of frequency though)
Plus some people drink to be more social, not always to drink themselves unconscious. And if that's the case the only thing they might be less conscious of is the walls they put up between themselves and others and I don't see that necessarily as a bad thing.

[rainbow]

1 standard drink of red wine is actually beneficial to your health, as has been proven here years ago.

so in your not moderating what is bad, you're maximising the good by drinking in moderation. if you catch my drift?

[DJMethods]

If you've never had a drink, you should stop posting.

[TeknicelStylez]

I kind of have to agree with Methods cause how exactly would you know what drinking is like. Thats kind of like saying Basketball is the worst sport ever and you never even attempted to dribble, you just watched the Magic blow ass all over the place for 1 game.

[SubtleEnergies]

DJ Methods - on what basis?

And also I have drank twice in my life. But it is a fucking ridiculous view...do I need to try heroin to say it isn't good for you?

OSIRIS 16 - as I stated before renouncing conciousness is the ONLY reason you drink. The affects of alcohol only come from inhibiting certain parts of the brain - nothing else.

I am sorry but there is a real lack of logic in the arguments coming from you drinkers. You can not say I shouldn't post if I never had a drink...coz I am not posting on the experience of being drunk anyway (which incidentally felt like shit to me anyway, but I didn't mention that). Also, you can not say you don't drink to renounce conciousness without explaining that...coz like I said that is exactly what you do in some degree.

And the red wine being beneficial - to the HEART. The same one drink causes a number of problems. A study on a similar level of drinking I saw on the news here (Australia) showed that amount of alcohol decreases memory significantly as you age and the chances of senility earlier in life.

[SubtleEnergies]

Also Osiris, I know my examples were extreme...

And I do know it affects people differently...but all are to some degree dumbing themselves down. And some people can stay in control more than others....but alot can't.

I also think it plays a major part in keeping alot of poor people poor.

[Mumm Ra]

Also Osiris, I know my examples were extreme...

And I do know it affects people differently...but all are to some degree dumbing themselves down. And some people can stay in control more than others....but alot can't.

I also think it plays a major part in keeping alot of poor people poor.

I know it kept me poor for the good part of a year damn, drinking almost everyday that shit adds up. I went the longest time without buying a single music cd (or much else for that matter) cause it all went to beer and I feel retarded for it.

[TeknicelStylez]

Damn what kind of beer do you be drinking? 2.50 a day is hardly denting my pockets...

[DJMethods]

DJ Methods - on what basis?

And also I have drank twice in my life. But it is a fucking ridiculous view...do I need to try heroin to say it isn't good for you?

You're saying stuff about the effects of it and what it's like, not simply "it can kill you". Went on saying how it's just dumbing you down, and things which aren't scientifically proven that a person who has tried alcohol would have a better view of.

As for me; I drink occasionally, used to absolutely wreck the piss back when I was younger. I'm not stupid now, I never did anything dangerous on alcohol, and some great times happened while I was drunk, with alcohol being a good reason for it.

What you're doing is easy to do and lots of people do it to seem like they're smart. You're taking every bad point about it, disregarding the good points, and basing your judgement soley on those bad points. I could put up an argument that the internet was destroying people and dumbing us down, TV, movies, even hip-hop like what happens in the media now...

Forget the fact alcohol is a massive influence for helping resistance with eye problems (My gran has to have a glass of red wine every night, doctors orders), or the social aspect of alcohol, and yeah it'll look bad.

Alcohol by itself is nothing. I've spoken to chicks who I wouldn't normally cross paths with and ended up going out because I wanted to have a few drinks with mates, have conversations I wouldn't normally be able to have with people as well. Alcohol is the best cure known to man for paranoia.

It has it's downsides as does everything ever invented by man, but sometimes the good outweighs the bad. BTW, people who get drunk and act idiotic were idiots before they got drunk. Alcohol doesn't turn people into idiots, alcohol abuse might, but having a few drinks and relaxing won't make a person an idiot who wasn't already an idiot to begin with.

[V4D3R]

This thread is deju-vu to me...because I made a thread with same title maybe last year or year before and I'm too lazy to search it.